OT: California Dreamin': Density is the Future.

[MikeD]

Originally Posted by .RJ

The real scary part is that was written almost 20 years ago.

Haven't read the book and probably won't. 2/3 of the planet is covered in water. It's an engineering, cost, and political problem of purification, transport and storage. Read what Israel does https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_...tion_in_Israel.

[bicycletricycle]

Why “should” it look like that?

Originally Posted by verticaldoug

I recently did a southwest road trip to see my parents after 20 mo. in Phoenix. I flew into Las Vegas to meet daughter 1, take PCR and drive HWY 93 thru the Mojave.

After visiting parents, we drove to LA on HWY 10.

The bathtub ring on Lake Mead really sets a tone on the drought. The large wind farms and solar fields along 93 were really impressive.

Ironnically, HWY 93 from Kingman to Wickenberg looks great because of the monsoons and the Joshua Trees are really spectacular along the road.

Finally, after driving on Hwy 10 from Phoenix and viewing the dust devils for a while, you cross the Colorado at Ehrenberg. You can pull of the HWY and drive down to the river which is quite pretty.

But the whole area south of the HWY on the California side is just irrigated farmland.

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.4630...7i16384!8i8192

versus what it should look like-



How long can it last?

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by HenryA

Nuke plants and desalination or bust.
Probably bust.

But the weather is nice……

Too bad Nukes are still living off the badness of things that happened 36 and 42 years ago(and the last was a crappy designed and built reactor)...The USN has been using nuke power since 1954, and the latest are very advanced technology...There are solutions to nuke waste(recycle) and in comparison, even with nuke waste, 'pollute' way less than other sources..like fossil fuels and the not clean, solar panel industry.

BUT, something has got to be 'done'. The water crisis in the west is not new and will not be solved by rainfall in our lifetimes. Droughts and year long fire seasons are the 'new normal'. Gaia isn't happy.

[MikeD]

Originally Posted by paredown

A question about water resources for California residents--are the storm drains and waste sewers still connected, run into the same waste treatment plants and then get dumped out to sea?

Or have there been programs for returning gray water or ground water through groundwater reclamation sites?

(I ask because we are still running almost everything into the Hudson, even though we have a sole source aquifer for drinking water that suffers in dry years, while our population is growing like crazy. (We do have one operational gray water treatment site--but a few years ago they tried to ram through a desal plant, on the Hudson, just below the Indian Point nuclear generating plant.)

No, there is water reclamation. Golf courses and city parks around here, for example, are watered with reclaimed water. I would expect that to increase but there has to be infrastructure to do so. They are building a desalination plant in my city http://www.antiochbrackishdesal.com

[Ozz]

Originally Posted by bicycletricycle

Why “should” it look like that?

Natural state versus man-made/artificial/irrigated state that disrupts natural ecosystem....

But you know that already.....

Whether it "should" look like that depends on whether there is enough water to irrigate...it seems that there is not.

[bicycletricycle]

Nature includes people and what we build, like how a beaver dam is natural.

There would be a lot more water if they had finished the california state water project, almost twice as much.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Califo..._Water_Project

Originally Posted by Ozz

Natural state versus man-made/artificial/irrigated state that disrupts natural ecosystem....

But you know that already.....

Whether it "should" look like that depends on whether there is enough water to irrigate...it seems that there is not.

[bigbill]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Too bad Nukes are still living off the badness of things that happened 36 and 42 years ago(and the last was a crappy designed and built reactor)...The USN has been using nuke power since 1954, and the latest are very advanced technology...There are solutions to nuke waste(recycle) and in comparison, even with nuke waste, 'pollute' way less than other sources..like fossil fuels and the not clean, solar panel industry.

BUT, something has got to be 'done'. The water crisis in the west is not new and will not be solved by rainfall in our lifetimes. Droughts and year long fire seasons are the 'new normal'. Gaia isn't happy.

When I retired from the Navy after 27 years of operating nuclear reactors, the last thing I wanted to do was nuclear power. All that career path promises is working long hours in less than favorable locations. The whole nimby thing means new plants get kicked down the road for someone else to resolve.

I know that nuclear is safe, the new designs and even the older ones still in operation are inherently safe. If the operator does nothing, the reactor shuts down. But, radiation is scary, Hollywood says so.

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by bigbill

When I retired from the Navy after 27 years of operating nuclear reactors, the last thing I wanted to do was nuclear power. All that career path promises is working long hours in less than favorable locations. The whole nimby thing means new plants get kicked down the road for someone else to resolve.

I know that nuclear is safe, the new designs and even the older ones still in operation are inherently safe. If the operator does nothing, the reactor shuts down. But, radiation is scary, Hollywood says so.

Or people remember places like Chernobyl and Fukushima.

That ain't Hollywood.

[bigbill]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

Or people remember places like Chernobyl and Fukushima.

That ain't Hollywood.

And it's not the US. It wasn't the reactor's fault in Fukushima and Chernobyl was an inherently unstable design.

[bigbill]

Originally Posted by verticaldoug

I recently did a southwest road trip to see my parents after 20 mo. in Phoenix. I flew into Las Vegas to meet daughter 1, take PCR and drive HWY 93 thru the Mojave.

After visiting parents, we drove to LA on HWY 10.

The bathtub ring on Lake Mead really sets a tone on the drought. The large wind farms and solar fields along 93 were really impressive.

Ironnically, HWY 93 from Kingman to Wickenberg looks great because of the monsoons and the Joshua Trees are really spectacular along the road.

Finally, after driving on Hwy 10 from Phoenix and viewing the dust devils for a while, you cross the Colorado at Ehrenberg. You can pull of the HWY and drive down to the river which is quite pretty.

But the whole area south of the HWY on the California side is just irrigated farmland.

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.4630...7i16384!8i8192

versus what it should look like-



How long can it last?

I'm in Kingman and we've had an exceptional monsoon season after two years of very little rain. Everything is green and we have more storms this week. If nothing else the climate is predictably unpredictable.

It is pretty for now.

[Ozz]

Originally Posted by bicycletricycle

Nature includes people and what we build, like how a beaver dam is natural.

There would be a lot more water if they had finished the california state water project, almost twice as much.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Califo..._Water_Project

"what we build" being natural is debatable....I for one would not want to live on Coruscant.

I don't know much about water project you reference....but in PNW, we have lots of dams for irrigation (Columbia Basin Reclamation Project) and for hydro-power for electricity. About 75 yrs later....we are seeing problems from habitat destruction ruining salmon runs and other environmental problems....I don't follow it too closely, but many dams are being removed, and no new ones are planned....

Unintended consequences suck.....

[bicycletricycle]

Dams are probably one of the cleanest ways to make power and you get flood control and fresh water out of the deal.

Removing them to save the salmon is silly.

Originally Posted by Ozz

"what we build" being natural is debatable....I for one would not want to live on Coruscant.

I don't know much about water project you reference....but in PNW, we have lots of dams for irrigation (Columbia Basin Reclamation Project) and for hydro-power for electricity. About 75 yrs later....we are seeing problems from habitat destruction ruining salmon runs and other environmental problems....I don't follow it too closely, but many dams are being removed, and no new ones are planned....

Unintended consequences suck.....

[ORMojo]

Originally Posted by bicycletricycle

Dams are probably one of the cleanest ways to make power and you get flood control and fresh water out of the deal.

Removing them to save the salmon is silly.

Wow, just wrong. Tell that to our PNW Native American tribes. And the dams haven't just hurt salmon runs, they have changed entire ecosystems.

[Red Tornado]

Originally Posted by Ozz

"what we build" being natural is debatable....I for one would not want to live on Coruscant.

I don't know much about water project you reference....but in PNW, we have lots of dams for irrigation (Columbia Basin Reclamation Project) and for hydro-power for electricity. About 75 yrs later....we are seeing problems from habitat destruction ruining salmon runs and other environmental problems....I don't follow it too closely, but many dams are being removed, and no new ones are planned....

Unintended consequences suck.....

Textbook definition of super high population density right there. I would prefer to reside on Naboo, or maybe Alderaan.

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by bicycletricycle

Dams are probably one of the cleanest ways to make power and you get flood control and fresh water out of the deal.

Removing them to save the salmon is silly.

Many were unnecessary in the first place and total boondoggles.