Is Pogacar the real deal or is it all sus?

[Red Tornado]

Originally Posted by cuda

there is nothing about him that I find boring. What is getting a little less interesting for me is watching races he's in. Once UAE decide it's time to launch Tadje it's game over and usually with 60+Km to go. No one even bothers to go with him and then it's a race for podium spots and listening to the commentators go on endlessly about what an amazing freak T.P. is. So, when I know from the start who will win and more or less how it will be done I'm less likely to watch the race until the end. Today when he took his flyer and no one even bothered to jump with him I completely lost interest. All of which is on me of course and probably for the best. Had a great ride today. Hope all of you did too.

You're not alone in your views. I've been back and forth on Pogacar, but my sentiments of late are summed up very nicely in what you wrote.

Unbelievably amazing rider, nice guy, and def making history. OTOH, growing tired of the battle for 2nd being where the head-to-head racing happens. The events he's in are both exiting and boring, or maybe exciting and anti-climactic is better way to put it, simultaneously, for me.

Innocent until proven guilty (r.e. doping), and it's up to the other teams/riders to come up with a way to knock him off the top rung. Until then, I'll watch with mixed emotions.

[Ewiser]

You are starting to see in the French cycling press. Questioning Pogi. This will continue I am sure.

[lunardds]

In my mind it only makes sense to have someone create this much separation from the field if they have some sort of physical attribute that the others do not. I am talking about a physical gift or anomaly. Michael Phelps had his freakish long limbs and apparently web like skin between his toes. Bolt had his height and amazing stride in running. There are physical limitations to how much you can train for cycling. I have a hard time believing his cardio, strength, or pain tolerance is just that much higher than the field. He's doing something. It may not even be illegal but they figured out something. Fecal transplant? I've heard this is one of the new ways to gain an edge.

[mhespenheide]

Originally Posted by lunardds

In my mind it only makes sense to have someone create this much separation from the field if they have some sort of physical attribute that the others do not. I am talking about a physical gift or anomaly. Michael Phelps had his freakish long limbs and apparently web like skin between his toes. Bolt had his height and amazing stride in running. There are physical limitations to how much you can train for cycling. I have a hard time believing his cardio, strength, or pain tolerance is just that much higher than the field. He's doing something. It may not even be illegal but they figured out something. Fecal transplant? I've heard this is one of the new ways to gain an edge.

And what if his freakish physical attribute is his heart, his ability to metabolize food, his ability for his body to flush lactic acid out of his muscles, or the like?

[jm714]

Originally Posted by lunardds

In my mind it only makes sense to have someone create this much separation from the field if they have some sort of physical attribute that the others do not. I am talking about a physical gift or anomaly. Michael Phelps had his freakish long limbs and apparently web like skin between his toes. Bolt had his height and amazing stride in running. There are physical limitations to how much you can train for cycling. I have a hard time believing his cardio, strength, or pain tolerance is just that much higher than the field. He's doing something. It may not even be illegal but they figured out something. Fecal transplant? I've heard this is one of the new ways to gain an edge.

Fecal transplant??? I had no idea.

Also Phelps had a longer than normal torso for a person his height and short legs. This was good for a few things; legs take a lot oxygen and produce little drive compared to the arms in swimming and the bigger torso helped create a more powerful stroke from his arms.

https://es.pn/2PeJooV

[Fat Cat]

Originally Posted by Ewiser

You are starting to see in the French cycling press. Questioning Pogi. This will continue I am sure.

Of course ! !
He's not FRENCH !

[peanutgallery]

Al Bundy's 3rd comandment...It's wrong to be French. That aside, Pog is still totally fishy. We'll find out some time what the the details are. JFK is still a mystery, though

Originally Posted by Fat Cat

Of course ! !
He's not FRENCH !

[dmitrik4]

Originally Posted by lunardds

In my mind it only makes sense to have someone create this much separation from the field if they have some sort of physical attribute that the others do not. I am talking about a physical gift or anomaly. Michael Phelps had his freakish long limbs and apparently web like skin between his toes. Bolt had his height and amazing stride in running. There are physical limitations to how much you can train for cycling. I have a hard time believing his cardio, strength, or pain tolerance is just that much higher than the field. He's doing something. It may not even be illegal but they figured out something. Fecal transplant? I've heard this is one of the new ways to gain an edge.

Phelps also generates half as much lactic acid as his competitors, and is double jointed in his ankles and elbows, and hyper jointed in his chest. It’s a bunch of really freakish stuff that is specifically advantageous for swimming and adds up. I wouldn’t be surprised if Pog has similar advantages over even his WT competitors—if he’s only generating half the lactic acid as Remco, what’s that mean for his attacking ability? I’d guess it would be significant.

[jlwdm]

JV says he has a VO2 max of 97. Pogacar and Indurain high 80s. Indurain weighed 168 lbs though - JV 128 lbs.

Jeff

[osbk67]

Originally Posted by jlwdm

JV says he has a VO2 max of 97. Pogacar and Indurain high 80s. Indurain weighed 168 lbs though - JV 128 lbs.

Jeff

VO2 max is all well and good but JV needs to win more than just Grand Tours to become half the racer Pogacar is now. Anquetil and Indurain remain the best GT winners who didn’t win m/any Classics/Monuments and World/Olympic championships, and JV is yet to join them, much less the true pantheon of the sport across all road discliplines. That select group is headed by Coppi, Merckx, Hinault and now Pogacar who is very close to joining them.

[cash05458]

When Lance was winning a lot of the folks here complaining of boredom had zero problem...cheerleaders one and all. Even I am abit too old at 60 to not see Merckx at his best...I could only watch via old film. Leave it to this sport when we have a serious contender for the best ever that folks whine and bitch via a guy winning too much and they lose interest. Sure, he should lose more to keep you interested. What leader in a sport, any sport really gives a **** about that? As for juicing, I also watched folks ignore the most obvious stuff going on via Armstrong and defending him to a literally silly and embarrassing extent...and this kid has zero anything against him via that. Just friggin enjoy seeing a new legend. Or Not.

[NHAero]

Originally Posted by jlwdm

JV says he has a VO2 max of 97. Pogacar and Indurain high 80s. Indurain weighed 168 lbs though - JV 128 lbs.

Jeff

Isn't VO2 max per body weight? What is the significance of the difference in body weight of the two cyclists above?

[BdaGhisallo]

Originally Posted by NHAero

Isn't VO2 max per body weight? What is the significance of the difference in body weight of the two cyclists above?

Indurain had the far larger absolute capacity - 6.68 litres compared to 5.62 litres for JV - if you use the numbers cited above.

So Indurain should have produced far more power and, when weight wasn't a factor, should have been able to dust JV.

[verticaldoug]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGPGm38wt5g

1994 Indurain Time Trial where he was a locomotive.

(also the one where he blows by armstrong at the 3m15sec mark like he is standing still. )

[Stonerider]

Pog is the real deal. He's been performing well against Pro cyclists since he was 17 years old. He's just physically and mentally gifted for this sport. He took a step up this year with a new trainer and nutrition plan. His FTP seems to be up a little (which makes sense since he is only 26 years old and most male endurance athletes don't hit their peak powers until age 28) and he is leaner/lighter.