OT: sportwagen

[akelman]

For those who might care, I was at the local VW/Volvo dealer yesterday, and they're blowing out the remaining 2014 TDI Sportwagens. There are no manuals to be had, it seems, but automatics are readily available and surprisingly inexpensive: ~$24,500 with moonroof but no nav. The deal seemed good enough, and people here seem enamored enough of the car, that I'm considering getting one.

[eddief]

Has this been brought up yet in the conversation?

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/11/21/v...les-confirmed/

[shovelhd]

Not interested.

[jds108]

Originally Posted by eddief

Has this been brought up yet in the conversation?

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/11/21/v...les-confirmed/

Cool. Hopefully it arrives sooner rather than later. That'd be good for the non-maintained forest service dirt roads here in MT. Just have to see what kind of mpg penalty is involved. Although that article does say the Haldex system can completely disengage. I know nothing about this system but I'm assuming that there will be some amount of mpg penalty regardless.

[peanutgallery]

Is it due to the cost of a dsg?


QUOTE=akelman;1660213]For those who might care, I was at the local VW/Volvo dealer yesterday, and they're blowing out the remaining 2014 TDI Sportwagens. There are no manuals to be had, it seems, but automatics are readily available and surprisingly inexpensive: ~$24,500 with moonroof but no nav. The deal seemed good enough, and people here seem enamored enough of the car, that I'm considering getting one.[/QUOTE]

[thirdgenbird]

Originally Posted by akelman

For those who might care, I was at the local VW/Volvo dealer yesterday, and they're blowing out the remaining 2014 TDI Sportwagens. There are no manuals to be had, it seems, but automatics are readily available and surprisingly inexpensive: ~$24,500 with moonroof but no nav. The deal seemed good enough, and people here seem enamored enough of the car, that I'm considering getting one.

Seems like that's about the going price for a base tdi. Probably not a better value on the new market. Some say the mk6 will be cheaper to run than the new mk7. I think I like the mk6 dash better too. You won't be disappointed.

[AngryScientist]

i have exactly zero interest in owning a DSG car.

[Ralph]

I'm a huge fan of the Sportswagon, not so much the TDI version. However, VW/Audi have done a superb job of marketing to fill a niche market.

Most power train engineers don't see diesel as the future. Just too many hurdles to keep overcoming. And gasoline engines are also evolving. Ford, with it's Eco Boost series, BMW, Mercedes, GM, and others....have been developing gasoline engines using the best parts of a diesel engine.....turbo charging and direct injection, with forged pistons and rods and steel crank, and approaching the efficiency of a diesel engine with thousands less in engine cost. I noticed the new aluminum bodied Ford F150 has a new for this year 2.7 L Ecoboost engine (one of the engine options) with twin scroll turbo's cast into each exhaust bank that makes 139 ft lbs TQ per liter of displacement. The new Ram (Dodge) 3.0 turbo diesel makes 140 ft lbs tq per liter, and the Ram diesel costs thousands more. One would never make the additional diesel cost back in fuel savings VS the Ford engine. And with both having forged pistons and rods and steel crank, engine life s/b be about the same.

Hyundai and some others are now working on compression ignition gasoline engines. That would really combine the best features of current diesel and gas technology....and use a much cleaner buirning fuel.http://blog.caranddriver.com/hyundai...nition-engine/ Lots of exciting tech coming that's affordable.

[shovelhd]

Buzzkill.

[fiataccompli]

I'm interested in all the technical evolution, but thankfully not super attached to having anything that is latest or greatest. My technology purchases remain highly swayed by emotion....so I've always owned cars (and bikes) that were interesting to me more than necessarily the "best". Because, if they're interesting to me....well they are the best! Heck, I've wanted a TDi Jetta Wagon for 15 years...mine is probably as much of a midlife machine as the next guy's Corvette


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[Cat3roadracer]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

i have exactly zero interest in owning a DSG car.

Interested as to your comment. I have 11,000 miles on a 2013 and love it. Shifts beautifully. Some maintenance at 40k, but not a real big deal.

[GScot]

Regarding the future of diesel autos. Big rigs, ships, heavy equipment and even trains are continually improving in efficiency. More effort goes into reducing trips. Even jets use less fuel. The biggest portion of a barrel of oil is diesel. It's likely that that lone will incentivize the continued small auto consumption. At least for the near term mean one or two more cycles of development. Someday we'll just turn all the oil that's left into plastic but it's a long way off.

[palincss]

Originally Posted by Ralph

Most power train engineers don't see diesel as the future. Just too many hurdles to keep overcoming. And gasoline engines are also evolving. Ford, with it's Eco Boost series, BMW, Mercedes, GM, and others....have been developing gasoline engines using the best parts of a diesel engine.....turbo charging and direct injection, with forged pistons and rods and steel crank, and approaching the efficiency of a diesel engine with thousands less in engine cost.

And yet, in Europe diesels are the present. I've been reading articles in autocar.co.uk and have there learned that 80-90% of the cars I've been reading about are equipped with diesel engines in the UK: Mercedes, Audi, BMW, Jaguar, etc.

[PoppaWheelie]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

i have exactly zero interest in owning a DSG car.

I have a manual TDI Sportwagon and my wife has a DSG A3. I have to say, the DSG car is a hoot out on a twisty road. The shifts are super quick with the dual clutch setup and the paddle shift thing is fun once you get used to not moving that left foot around.

[carpediemracing]

Originally Posted by palincss

And yet, in Europe diesels are the present. I've been reading articles in autocar.co.uk and have there learned that 80-90% of the cars I've been reading about are equipped with diesel engines in the UK: Mercedes, Audi, BMW, Jaguar, etc.

There are a few factors. First, diesel is cheaper, not like in the US where diesel is usually more expensive (around here it's 50-60 cents more per gallon).

Second, European countries have a penalty tax for engines over 2 liters (or something like that, it might have changed) which encourages auto makers to have smaller, more powerful engines, and a small diesel will have some oomph compared to a similar sized gas engine.

Third, really high fuel tax rates leading to really high fuel prices. I think it's around $8-10/gallon in Europe right now. Therefore a driver taking into account fiscal considerations only will look at a gas car and a diesel car and say, okay, to drive 50 km to work I have to pay $8-10 each way for a gas car and about $4-5 each way for a diesel. That whole ROI equation gets really distorted with high fuel prices.

The one thing I wish we could get are the smaller diesels, or if the companies would put the current diesels into larger vehicles. I haven't driven such a vehicle but I imagine that the 1.6 TDI (-20 HP, -50 ft/lbs) wouldn't be bad in our current 2.0 TDI equipped Golf, and it should increase mileage more than incrementally, maybe 8-10 mpg in real life based on the A3's 1.6 TDI mileage rating. It shouldn't be too bad in terms of power, it should still be reasonably peppy. Getting 55-65 mpg would be a nice trade off for some peppiness. Currently we see about 36-40 mpg for a tank normally in the Golf, 38-44 mpg for the JSW, max 45/49? mpg for the two cars respectively. Low numbers in cold weather, best is if we're on busy flatter highways that don't slow down (like Jersey Turnpike, I95 along CT shoreline, etc).

The other thing would be to put some of the small TDIs (like the 2.0) into something like a minivan. Okay, acceleration from a dead stop wouldn't be great, but on a hill or from 20-60 mph wouldn't be horrible. The 2.0 TDI makes a lot of torque, about as much as the Odyssey's V6. Yes, it gives up almost half the horsepower, but to get things going you want torque. I imagine that from an efficiency point of view that holding cruising speeds with a 2.0 TDI would be better than a 3.x liter V6. Again, I haven't driven a minivan so equipped but I often drove a big torque work van. It accelerated to 50 mph really well and sort of fell on its face at 65 mph.