OT: 2023 - 2024 Football / Calcio / Futbol / Fußball Thread

[wc1934]

Rumor - Klopp leaving Liverpool?

[echappist]

More than a rumor, unfortunately.

Whoever replacing him has some big shoes to fill.

[martl]

There might be a merry coaches ring swap going on in june, involving the german team, Bayern, Bayer, Liverpool, and Mr Alonso Tuchel Nagelsmann and Klopp

[wc1934]

Originally Posted by martl

There might be a merry coaches ring swap going on in june, involving the german team, Bayern, Bayer, Liverpool, and Mr Alonso Tuchel Nagelsmann and Klopp

X Alonso back home to Liverpool might be a good fit - but what if he wins it all this year.

[goonster]

It was always going to happen like this, I just thought we'd have at least another season.

Xabi Alonso does not need this hanging over him, in his first season in Germany, on track to possibly win Leverkusen's first ever league title.

There are other things afoot that may be a sign of big changes: FSG looking for a buyer last year, Schmadke leaving (been here half a season), etc.

[echappist]

I started paying attention to club football in 2015, right around the time that Klopp took over the reins at LFC. I think for the first two years or so, I was actually a bit bemused by his persona and coverage surrounding it, but somewhere in 2018, something clicked, and I found his brand of football mesmerizing. There was that UCL tie where LFC scored three goals past a well-oiled City squad in 30 minutes played, and following up that with a victory at City in the second leg. The following year, there was perhaps in his biggest coup, that 4-0 victory against Barça.

Once I started following his team more, it became apparent how much emotional intelligence he possesses (well, most of the time). He rarely threw his players under the bus, and he gave the impression of someone most would like to have for a supervisor.

I'm not sure if I'll pay as much attention to club football next year, and my wife would probably opine that a reduction in attention would be a good thing, but it has been a thoroughly enjoyable diversion following Herr Klopp's endeavors.

[martl]

Originally Posted by wc1934

X Alonso back home to Liverpool might be a good fit - but what if he wins it all this year.

Leverkusen can only be a first step, hes not going to hang around forever. It is documented he has a release clause for all his former clubs - Madrid Munich Pool. He might have no problem staying another season, but if the situation gives him an opportunity to manage a european top club hes likely going to take it, hes been around long enough and not a fool to know these chances may not come again for some time. Leverkusen may lose some key players when they succeed this year, too.

[goonster]

The question isn't whether Xabi should take it (yes!), but whether Liverpool should offer. His managing resume is just too thin, at this point. The stars may yet align, but it would suck for Leverkusen.

Tuchel would be a poor fit, Nagelsmann is too lightweight, but de Zerbi may bring the right tactics.

[echappist]

Originally Posted by goonster

The question isn't whether Xabi should take it (yes!), but whether Liverpool should offer. His managing resume is just too thin, at this point. The stars may yet align, but it would suck for Leverkusen.

Tuchel would be a poor fit, Nagelsmann is too lightweight, but de Zerbi may bring the right tactics.

De Zerbi comes across as a tad callow and obstinate. On the latter point, perhaps not so different from how Klopp insisted on a lot of pressing early on at LFC before recognizing that a more tempered approach affords greater stability and fresher legs. But then again, maybe having better players at as disposal might change his approach.

I personally don’t think Alonso’s resume is that thin. He did take over a struggling Leverkusen side (17th at the time of his appointment) and got it into 6th place last year. He has managed recruiting decently well so far, though he has yet to contend with the task of doing a rebuild.

Also, Unai Emery might not be a bad choice.

[Andy340]

Liverpools loss may be German national team gain, timing allows some time off and then build up to 2026 World Cup in North America.

[martl]

Originally Posted by goonster

The question isn't whether Xabi should take it (yes!), but whether Liverpool should offer. His managing resume is just too thin, at this point. The stars may yet align, but it would suck for Leverkusen.

Tuchel would be a poor fit, Nagelsmann is too lightweight, but de Zerbi may bring the right tactics.

in what regard is De Zerbis resume thicker?

[wc1934]

Originally Posted by wc1934

X Alonso back home to Liverpool might be a good fit - but what if he wins it all this year.

or maybe not
ESPN:
Xabi Alonso of Bayer Leverkusen, surprise leaders in the German Bundesliga, is currently the betting favorite for the job, and it's a hire that would earn near-universal approval. Per that Twenty First Group metric mentioned earlier, Alonso has improved his squad over his first two seasons more than that of any coach other than Klopp and Diego Simeone at Atletico Madrid. (Eddie Howe, current Newcastle coach, and Roberto Mancini, who was fired by Manchester City in 2013, also rate above Alonso on the list -- it ranks coaches going back to 2008 -- but most of that improvement comes down to sovereign wealth funds buying their club and spending tons of money.)

The big hitch in this idea is the way Leverkusen plays. Liverpool have built a team of players who thrive in vertical chaos, pressing and pushing the ball up field, over and over again. Leverkusen, though, rank in the bottom 10 of all teams in Europe for the percentage of their passes that go forward and the speed at which they move the ball up the field. Klopp's Liverpool also allow the fourth-fewest passes per defensive action (PPDA) with 9.2, while Alonso's Leverkusen allow 13.2, which is below the Europe-wide average.

While Alonso could shift his approach to match Liverpool's personnel or vice versa, we just haven't seen either of those things happen yet. Given that, this is not as obvious of a hire as it might seem on the surface.

[echappist]

Originally Posted by wc1934

or maybe not
ESPN:
Xabi Alonso of Bayer Leverkusen, surprise leaders in the German Bundesliga, is currently the betting favorite for the job, and it's a hire that would earn near-universal approval. Per that Twenty First Group metric mentioned earlier, Alonso has improved his squad over his first two seasons more than that of any coach other than Klopp and Diego Simeone at Atletico Madrid. (Eddie Howe, current Newcastle coach, and Roberto Mancini, who was fired by Manchester City in 2013, also rate above Alonso on the list -- it ranks coaches going back to 2008 -- but most of that improvement comes down to sovereign wealth funds buying their club and spending tons of money.)

The big hitch in this idea is the way Leverkusen plays. Liverpool have built a team of players who thrive in vertical chaos, pressing and pushing the ball up field, over and over again. Leverkusen, though, rank in the bottom 10 of all teams in Europe for the percentage of their passes that go forward and the speed at which they move the ball up the field. Klopp's Liverpool also allow the fourth-fewest passes per defensive action (PPDA) with 9.2, while Alonso's Leverkusen allow 13.2, which is below the Europe-wide average.

While Alonso could shift his approach to match Liverpool's personnel or vice versa, we just haven't seen either of those things happen yet. Given that, this is not as obvious of a hire as it might seem on the surface.

I think while it's a valid point to point out the stylistic differences, the larger question should be whether one has the ability to adapt and utilize a group of arguably some of the best players on the planet.

Klopp himself showed a willingness to change during his time at LFC. His counterpressing tactics worked in the Bundesliga with players who weren't considered truly elite (he turned above-average players into very good players), yet when he tried it in the EPL, it didn't work out nearly as well.

Unless one is funded with very deep pockets and could just jettison players deemed below-grade the way a toddler throws away unwanted toys (e.g. the way Guardiola dispenses with 40M GBP defenders surplus to requirement), a bit of pragmatism goes a long way.

While getting a few players particular to a particular manager's desire is normal, overly indulging on a manager's desire to play his own style leads to potential issues the way with Conte and his wingbacks or the way Ten Haag spent few hundred million pounds on players that didn't work out.

[martl]

CL round of 8 draw coming up.

Contenders are:

3x Spain: Atletico, Barcelona, Madrid
1x England: Arsenal
1x England-Saudi Arabia: Manchester City
2x Germany: Bayern, BVB Dortmund
1x France-Qatar: PSG

one could say, the usual suspects, no?

[echappist]

Originally Posted by martl

CL round of 8 draw coming up.

Contenders are:

3x Spain: Atletico, Barcelona, Madrid
1x England: Arsenal
1x England-Saudi Arabia: Manchester City
2x Germany: Bayern, BVB Dortmund
1x France-Qatar: PSG

one could say, the usual suspects, no?

All of them except for BVB (only second time post-Klopp) and Arsenal. Though Arsenal getting booted out (say by Bayern) would be par for the course, even at this slightly later stage of proceedings.

Also, Man. Sheikhy is UAE. Easy to remember b/c sheikhs are important figures in UAE but not KSA.