Adjusting approach to conventional road riding

[Jaybee]

Assertive is usually predictable. Nothing wrong with that.

[steamer]

I have some safety concerns about road riding, and I too have been adjusting my behavior over time to help manage the risk.

There is no simple one-liner type of advice or course of action.

In reality, the best course of action is to pursue safety on multiple fronts.

Here is what I do.

• Be conspicuous. (High viz clothes (at least partial), rear Dinotte light, etc.)
• Be aware. (Use mirrors - Ihave the Italian RB mirror on both of my bikes; Consider use 'cat ears' so you can actually hear above wind noise, constantly visually scan the environment, don't day dream too hard, etc.)
• Don't assume. (i.e. that car driver might not actually see you)
• Choose good routes. Not all roads are equally safe. I look for the twistiest, narrowest roads I can. Roads that will put drivers in a ditch if they let themselves get too distracted or drive too fast. Such roads just simply see less traffic too, since they are the slow way to get somewhere.
• Don't ride directly into the sun if at all possible.
• Practice assertive riding techniques where appropriate (e.g. take the lane to prevent unsafe passes), but recognize the cases where it may actually increase risk.
• Practice defensive riding techniques where appropriate. (part of the 'don't assume' philosophy)
• Use safe equipment (non-fragile tires, good brakes, etc.)
• Wear "safe clothing" (gloves, helmet, glasses/eye shields)

On the point above of knowing when NOT to take the lane.....I live in what a lot of folk would regard as a rednecky area, and there are certain places that either topography or the inbred personality defects of the population demand that you don't ride all that much further to the left than you absolutely need to in order to be safe against debris, going onto the shoulder, etc.

In these cases, riding a little bit extra to the left (as opposed to way over tot he left - i.e. taking the lane) is the safest procedure, IMO. But watch those mirrors and get ready to retreat when necessary.

I have had a handful of experiences whereby if I had been in the middle of the lane or if I had not heard or seen the car coming up from behind, I would have been killed. Only my own evasive maneuvers to the edge of the road saved me. Those instances were all whereby the car was speeding and the the road is twisty and/or hilly. The car whipped around a turn or over the crest of the hill absolutely flying, with their tires inches away from the white line, and the car driver would have only had about 1 or 2 seconds at most before reaching my location after first seeing me appear into view. And their ability to swerve away from me is limited. In these instances you gotta get the hell off the road or your are dead. Taking the lane would just force your evasive maneuver to take longer. And you might not have enough forewarning. This kind of event is not particularly common, but hit happens. Gotta use your ears and eyes on the back of your heat (ie mirror).

[Gummee]

Originally Posted by GregL

^^^ IMO, best advice thus far in this thread. I've found that effective cycling behavior (as quoted above) is the best way to ensure safety on the road. When motorists clearly know your intentions, they lose the "I didn't know what you were going to do" excuse.

I 100% agree with the positive message mentality (eye contact, waving, smiling, etc...) to reinforce good road user interaction. When another road user adheres to vehicle traffic law and (rightfully) gives me the right-of-way, I make sure to give them a smile, wave, and a "thank you" when windows are open. I often thank motorists for courteous driving if circumstances allow. I even exchanged compliments with a driver at a country three-way intersection. We both complimented each other for signaling and stopping. A little friendliness goes a long way!!

The collective "we" are all ambassadors for cycling. We all have to do our part to make cycling a safe, friendly experience. And for everyone who has bad road cycling experiences in their part of the world, please come for a visit to central New York. We have miles of lightly-traveled roads. Most roads have wide shoulders (thanks to our high tax burden). And in my experience, central New Yorker drivers tend to be friendly and polite! I'm happy to lead you on roads I love.

Greg

This. I'm a fan of waving when people pass carefully, etc.

Like Weisan, I've found that as you hear a car coming up behind you to stick your arm out and wave (I don't do mirrors). Fingers splayed so your hand looks like a hand. I've found that it gets people to go round farther by A. making you wider without being a putz and B. you're a person because you have a hand/fingers. You aren't just a thing in their way.

I'm typically an assertive rider: moving leftwards in unsafe spots, then obviously moving back right when the unsafe situation is over. ...then waving as people pass to say thank you.

Seems to help here in the land of the type A/ambitious types called the DC Area

M

[Climb01742]

Originally Posted by bigbill

That's the thing here. The drivers here are overwhelmingly friendly, it's the NE Texas default response, if you don't understand something just be courteous. But in the last 6 years since I arrived, the local group has gotten bigger, riding longer distances, and exhibited worse behavior. I just won't ride with them anymore. Running lights, diving corners into oncoming traffic hoping there's not a car, and having no idea how to ride in a paceline. We're almost two hours from anywhere with a decent sized cycling population that would have group rides, so the locals here have no idea what to do. But the stuff they do would get them kicked out of a group. My concern is the goodwill of the local drivers will get tested beyond what they'll tolerate and we'll hear about some guy running over a group.

+1

There’s no question that there are drivers endangering cyclist every day. I ride narrow back roads. I know. But this really is a two way street, in every sense. Some portion of riders turn up the aggravation felt by drivers. Before we abandoned the roads, what if cyclists voluntarily abandoned group rides? Is their downside for the many worth it? It’s absolutely fair to ask drivers to be better. Can we be better too?

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Climb01742

+1

There’s no question that there are drivers endangering cyclist every day. I ride narrow back roads. I know. But this really is a two way street, in every sense. Some portion of riders turn up the aggravation felt by drivers. Before we abandoned the roads, what if cyclists voluntarily abandoned group rides? Is their downside for the many worth it? It’s absolutely fair to ask drivers to be better. Can we be better too?

There is no doubt 'we' are our own worse enemy, sometimes...

[dancinkozmo]

Originally Posted by steamer

Here is what I do.

• Be conspicuous. (High viz clothes (at least partial), rear Dinotte light, etc.)
• Be aware. (Use mirrors - Ihave the Italian RB mirror on both of my bikes; Consider use 'cat ears' so you can actually hear above wind noise, constantly visually scan the environment, don't day dream too hard, etc.)
• Don't assume. (i.e. that car driver might not actually see you)
• Choose good routes. Not all roads are equally safe. I look for the twistiest, narrowest roads I can. Roads that will put drivers in a ditch if they let themselves get too distracted or drive too fast. Such roads just simply see less traffic too, since they are the slow way to get somewhere.
• Don't ride directly into the sun if at all possible.
• Practice assertive riding techniques where appropriate (e.g. take the lane to prevent unsafe passes), but recognize the cases where it may actually increase risk.
• Practice defensive riding techniques where appropriate. (part of the 'don't assume' philosophy)
• Use safe equipment (non-fragile tires, good brakes, etc.)
• Wear "safe clothing" (gloves, helmet, glasses/eye shields)

jeezzus....at what point does one say "fcuk this, im leasing a hyundai"
???

[Mikej]

I know how you feel - I think it may be there are just lots more people out riding who are learning, this is causing trouble because the beginner may not have been taught how to properly ride roads. There are tons of jerks, too. Also, unhappy people get mad when they see happy people enjoying something- and ignoring them is the only way to go.

[brockd15]

Originally Posted by BobO

Just a quick word of caution. There's a lot of assumptions being made in this thread about other's intentions. Those assumptions may or may not be correct, but, it's generally best not to build a persona for someone else in your own mind based upon a single moment in time and our own bias.

Originally Posted by bigbill

That's the thing here. The drivers here are overwhelmingly friendly, it's the NE Texas default response, if you don't understand something just be courteous. But in the last 6 years since I arrived, the local group has gotten bigger, riding longer distances, and exhibited worse behavior. I just won't ride with them anymore. Running lights, diving corners into oncoming traffic hoping there's not a car, and having no idea how to ride in a paceline. We're almost two hours from anywhere with a decent sized cycling population that would have group rides, so the locals here have no idea what to do. But the stuff they do would get them kicked out of a group. My concern is the goodwill of the local drivers will get tested beyond what they'll tolerate and we'll hear about some guy running over a group.

Good input here. ^^^

Like some people have said already, this is just people, and doesn't have anything to do with what they drive, their political leanings, who their favorite sports team is, or if they prefer fish or chicken. There are rude and aggressive drivers, co-workers, cyclists, ping pongers, skateboarders, librarians, and paceliners.

I've had several close calls myself. Never by a big so-called "redneck" truck. The two times I've actually needed some assistance on the roadside, it was by guys in pickups that stopped to see if I needed anything.

Originally Posted by smead

As cyclists we are minorities, and haters of minorities are in full bloom these days, hate seems to be more "OK", haters feel more emboldened and less fearful of consequences. I won't offer up the obvious reason why this is, otherwise the thread will get locked down quick. Stay safe out there, spread some love and good karma, it'll get back eventually. I do find myself now waving at just about every car that gives me space and passes with care.

I honestly don't see this at all in real life. I actually think the idea of it being true is kinda silly. It just doesn't make any sense.

It does seem like people on TV and the internet are generally angrier and more rude now, but in the real world that doesn't normally seem to be the case, at least not any more than in the past. The idea that "hate" is emboldened these days does have some merit to it, but kind of opposite of "the obvious reason why" that you mention. Its weird, because the hate actually seems to come more from the people who warn about it, not as much from the people they accuse of doing it (not talking about you, specifically, btw).

Originally Posted by thwart

Exactly. When someone does something really obnoxious, and I'm tempted to flip 'em the bird... it helps me to remember that anyone with those tendencies likely has a gun in the glovebox... or on their person.

This is especially true with the recently relaxed gun laws here in the Dairyland.

Count to ten. Smile and wave.

"Anyone with those tendencies likely has a gun"...haha. Not sure if that's intentionally funny or not, but it is funny.
Well, I'm not sure I could disagree with it more than I do. Maybe a little bit, I guess. I think it probably says more about your own prejudices than anything about those people, though. But hey, if its that thought that leads to a smile and wave rather than flippin' people off, then maybe it's a good thing, anyway.

Regardless, I feel for anyone getting buzzed or hooked or otherwise having a close call, it's scary stuff. I got a Dinotte Quad Red a few years ago and ride with it and a headlight both day or night. I haven't had the comments from drivers but have had a couple bike riders say something about it.

[campy man]

Originally Posted by Clean39T

EDIT: ... I am committing to being more selective about when and where I ride in order to reduce the statistical likelihood of ending up dead or disabled.

+1 I only ride certain roads/streets and certain times. My hat is off to all the brave Paceline commuters/riders out there on a regular basis dealing with traffic.

On my routes, the biggest problem is clowns speeding up to pass and making a right turn in front of me.

[thwart]

Originally Posted by brockd15

I've had several close calls myself. Never by a big so-called "redneck" truck.

You need to get out more. Or maybe you've just been lucky.

Rollin' coal is a thing.

Originally Posted by brockd15

The idea that "hate" is emboldened these days does have some merit to it, but kind of opposite of "the obvious reason why" that you mention. Its weird, because the hate actually seems to come more from the people who warn about it, not as much from the people they accuse of doing it (not talking about you, specifically, btw).

Gee, do they make MAGA bike caps?

Originally Posted by brockd15

"Anyone with those tendencies likely has a gun"...haha. Not sure if that's intentionally funny or not, but it is funny.

I dunno... the folks I ride with don't think it's funny. At all.

Originally Posted by brockd15

But hey, if its that thought that leads to a smile and wave rather than flippin' people off, then maybe it's a good thing, anyway.

Well, we certainly agree on that.

[brockd15]

Originally Posted by thwart

You need to get out more. Or maybe you've just been lucky.

Rollin' coal is a thing.

No, I know it's a thing, I've seen the videos and it's ridiculous! I have had little Toyota commuter cars fly by way too close. Almost got doored by a Miata. Soccer mom SUVs with a nice right hook. School buses that I'd swear were trying to kill me and make it look like an accident. Never one of the big pickups.

Originally Posted by thwart

Gee, do they make MAGA bike caps?

Ha. Well, that's beside the point, but I'll call it like I see it. If you want to talk about feeling emboldened to be hateful...do they make De Niro bike caps? How about Kathy Griffin? Or tons of others. The restaurant owner who booted people only because she didn't agree with them politically probably had on one of those hats, right?
These things are over the top, and I'd say they feel emboldened and justified to behave the way they do. But again, these are not things I see by real people in every day life 99% of the time.

Originally Posted by thwart

I dunno... the folks I ride with don't think it's funny. At all.

I'm sure they don't, but I bet it's because you all tend to hold the same ideas, not because of any truth to the idea. The funny part is the thought that those people out there that are rude and selfish and careless are probably the gun owners. Those polite ones that give a car lane passing width, wave with a smile, and hand a fresh bottle of water out the window as they pass, like they're your own team car, they wouldn't ever do such a thing!
You need to get out more. Or maybe you've just been unlucky.

Now, anyone that would use a gun or any weapon for something like harassing, scaring, intimidating (or worse) cyclists, or anyone else...that's not funny. That should go without saying, but I said it anyway.

Originally Posted by thwart

Well, we certainly agree on that.

Ok, good.
Kidding aside, that's a good approach. You never know who you're dealing with.

[54ny77]

Now that is funny.

Originally Posted by dancinkozmo

jeezzus....at what point does one say "fcuk this, im leasing a hyundai"
???

[weisan]

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by weisan

If you want to come and criticize this idea, I prefer that you just shut your mouth and don't say anything, just F.O. especially if you haven't try it yourself, you have no right to criticize.

you forgot that part...

[Dave Ferris]

Riding on the road isn't worth it to me. It's worse now then ever, especially with the texting thing. Glad I'm a runner. Even that can be hazardous.

And yes, even around here , which is mellow by LA standards, I still feel a certain angst out there on the road that I never did years ago.

My friend, who also runs, rides his road bike on alternate days around Burbank and Griffith Park and even is brave enough to venture into the Valley. Seems like everyday he's posting something on FB about a close encounter.

I chose wisely 5 years ago when I was on the fence between having a road bike or MTB made by Steve Potts. It might be the same old same doing the Verdugo Mountains over here in Glendale but I'll take it over the streets.