OT: Electric Vehicles--anyone driving them or seriously looked at them?

[benb]

Originally Posted by C40_guy

@benb - I think you can justify spending $6K on a good commuting bike and leaving your (rarely-driven) car home even more.

Glad I could help.

LOL.. no need to spend $6k on a commuting bike since that's just a theft target.

I have a pretty good commuting setup and have enough bike gear to ride year round. I usually have a motivation problem because:

- The ride is pretty dangerous in terms of traffic density - I am very comfortable cycling in traffic but if I was riding for leisure I'm not going anywhere near my commuting route
- The ride is in the awful zone where it's not really a good workout but is just enough to end up getting sweaty
- Time wasted taking an extra shower
- I always have to either take my kid to the bus stop in the morning or pick him up at night. Don't have a bike I can pick him up with, and I don't really want to buy a cargo bike.

[benb]

Originally Posted by NHAero

Benb -
My Hyundai Ioniq PHEV is getting about 4 miles/kWh. So at $0.22/kWh here on Martha's Vineyard, that works out to 5.5 cents/mile. If gasoline costs $2.50/gallon and the car in local traffic got 40 mpg, then the cost/mile is 6.3 cents.
We're driving about 6,000 miles/year on electricity, at a cost of about $27.50/month (if we paid for that juice and didn't have the solar)

Thanks this is very nice info.. I gotta check, but I think our electricity is closer to $0.15/kWh on the mainland in MA IIRC.

$2.50 is a good estimate for gas prices in my neighborhood but I have a Subaru.. it's rated 24mpg city but it's lucky to average 20mpg in my commuting. But I drive less than 10 miles/day most work days.

50 miles a week commuting = ~2.5 gal/gas = $6.25 gas commuting so I'm easily beyond your $27.50. (I am quite likely to drive > 100 miles on the weekend for whatever, plus there is extra driving during the week.)

All this ignores maintenance.

[C40_guy]

Originally Posted by benb

LOL.. no need to spend $6k on a commuting bike since that's just a theft target.

I have a pretty good commuting setup and have enough bike gear to ride year round. I usually have a motivation problem because:

- The ride is pretty dangerous in terms of traffic density - I am very comfortable cycling in traffic but if I was riding for leisure I'm not going anywhere near my commuting route
- The ride is in the awful zone where it's not really a good workout but is just enough to end up getting sweaty
- Time wasted taking an extra shower
- I always have to either take my kid to the bus stop in the morning or pick him up at night. Don't have a bike I can pick him up with, and I don't really want to buy a cargo bike.

Thought I'd give it a shot...help a buddy out.

For a while I was commuting from Framingham to Framingham, 2.5 miles one way. So in the morning I'd head in the wrong direction to get some miles in.

Years later I commuted from Needham to Waltham. Lots of back roads, fair amount of sleepy/grumpy commuters, but I had a place to park my commuting bike (parking garage, the building had a no bike rule) and to shower. I did pick up a "disposable" bike just for the commute...actually a fairly nice Cannondale T800...but if it got stolen I wouldn't have cried.

Now I work from home (Cape Cod) or travel to remote offices by car or air. No more bike commuting for me.

My car may see as few as 20 miles in a week, so the electric commuter upgrade doesn't make much sense for me... I did the math and with a plug-in hybrid I would potentially save $500 a year in gasoline expense. Given my usage profile, a pure EV wouldn't save any more.

[NHAero]

The PHEV makes sense for us because we needed one new "long distance" car, plus we had an annual PV export of 1500-1700 kWh...no way to get that $ back from Eversource, so we're driving it

Originally Posted by C40_guy

Thought I'd give it a shot...help a buddy out.

For a while I was commuting from Framingham to Framingham, 2.5 miles one way. So in the morning I'd head in the wrong direction to get some miles in.

Years later I commuted from Needham to Waltham. Lots of back roads, fair amount of sleepy/grumpy commuters, but I had a place to park my commuting bike (parking garage, the building had a no bike rule) and to shower. I did pick up a "disposable" bike just for the commute...actually a fairly nice Cannondale T800...but if it got stolen I wouldn't have cried.

Now I work from home (Cape Cod) or travel to remote offices by car or air. No more bike commuting for me.

My car may see as few as 20 miles in a week, so the electric commuter upgrade doesn't make much sense for me... I did the math and with a plug-in hybrid I would potentially save $500 a year in gasoline expense. Given my usage profile, a pure EV wouldn't save any more.

[likebikes]

"long distance" car for MV ???

[DrewK]

This is a fascinating thread.

My major concern with PHEV’s and EV’s, and really anything with a giant battery, is our dependency on a Communist country (China). Last I read, China controls 75% of the world’s capacity of lithium production (or production of lithium products, I can’t remember).

What happens when China decides they don’t like us?

I suppose the same could happen now when the Middle East decides they have enough money and they don’t want to export any more fossil fuels...

[DrewK]

If Honda made an electric or PHEV Ridgeline, I’d buy it in a hot minute. It would be pretty difficult for me to get away from having some kind of cargo capacity that I don’t have to smell inside the car...

[benb]

Originally Posted by C40_guy

Thought I'd give it a shot...help a buddy out.

For a while I was commuting from Framingham to Framingham, 2.5 miles one way. So in the morning I'd head in the wrong direction to get some miles in.

Years later I commuted from Needham to Waltham. Lots of back roads, fair amount of sleepy/grumpy commuters, but I had a place to park my commuting bike (parking garage, the building had a no bike rule) and to shower. I did pick up a "disposable" bike just for the commute...actually a fairly nice Cannondale T800...but if it got stolen I wouldn't have cried.

Now I work from home (Cape Cod) or travel to remote offices by car or air. No more bike commuting for me.

My car may see as few as 20 miles in a week, so the electric commuter upgrade doesn't make much sense for me... I did the math and with a plug-in hybrid I would potentially save $500 a year in gasoline expense. Given my usage profile, a pure EV wouldn't save any more.

All your suggestions make sense. My story was similar before I had a kid. Cycling takes up a lot of time and time is always an issue with kids.

[jimcav]

Originally Posted by DrewK

This is a fascinating thread.

What happens when China decides they don’t like us?

A mining company just got permission to got through the leftover crap from previous mining efforts for Borax etc where i used to work up near Kern/Mono County--supposedly there is quite a bit of Li in the waste from other mining ops in the USA--they just didn't value it then...I think the Co is Rio Tinto

[lorenbike]

https://apnews.com/article/technolog...430a02cc939f6b

I've heard the batteries are heavier, but didn't realize how much so. Another hazard to worry about as a pedestrian/cyclist every time a Tesla goes by...

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by lorenbike

https://apnews.com/article/technolog...430a02cc939f6b

I've heard the batteries are heavier, but didn't realize how much so. Another hazard to worry about as a pedestrian/cyclist every time a Tesla goes by...

I'm not afraid.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by lorenbike

https://apnews.com/article/technolog...430a02cc939f6b

I've heard the batteries are heavier, but didn't realize how much so. Another hazard to worry about as a pedestrian/cyclist every time a Tesla goes by...

Haven't 'they' been warning of the weight differences and bumber height, about the YUGE number of GRT(GreatBigTrucks) on the highways now? The 'big boys, like Ford F-150, Chevy Silverado, Toyota Tundra, Nissan Titan and their SUV counterparts? Vs smaller, lighter, SUVs and sedans/wagons?

9000 pounds for a Hummer EV.?.yeegads.

Another hazard to worry about as a pedestrian/cyclist every time a Tesla goes by...

Tesla 4500-5500 pounds or so. F-150 about the same.

[AngryScientist]

Originally Posted by lorenbike

https://apnews.com/article/technolog...430a02cc939f6b

I've heard the batteries are heavier, but didn't realize how much so. Another hazard to worry about as a pedestrian/cyclist every time a Tesla goes by...

I agree with pointing that out, but it's not as if pedestrians, honda civics and motorcycles arent already out among the F250's and 1T cargo vans of the world, which are also very heavy.

Here in NJ, annual registration cost is partially tied to vehicle weight. Hopefully they also find some way to charge heavy vehicle users a tax, as they also put more wear on the roads than lighter vehicles.

[Tickdoc]

Still not on board, but I am renting a Tesla Y next month for a trip to SF/wine country.

Hertz has teslas available cheaper than a comparable suv, so I figure what the heck. Plus, I can blend in with the locals better.

I am curious if autopilot is available on a rental? Never had to find a charging station or charge a car, but with the amount of driving on this trip I should only have to charge once?

So, to the current Tesla owners, how many of you use the autopilot regularly and trust it and in what situations do you not use it?

Maybe I'll come back a fan boy and want to sell my mustang, but I doubt it. amazingly, they look to be at about the same performance level.

[robt57]

Have 2020 PHEV Pacifica for just turned 25 months, 2022 Bolt is wife's commuter, 7/21 delivery. Van gets bike and big dog duty. Bolt work and zippy car to run for stuff, emphasis on zippy FWIW.

>I am retired, use/6k yr avg mainly for trips with van.

>Wife's Bolt replaced 41 MPG Honda Fit. 1k/mo. use.
>Wife LOVES never having to get gas or go to gas station. Love how fast it is as that eliminates the little car bulling on the road driving.

Running COST:
>Elec here with transmission cost and avg in administrative cost/mo is $0.145 kWh

>Propulsion costs about 1/3 gas. Elec don't like cold much and wife luvs remote starts and all the heated seat/wheel/mirror use when cold. Elements eat kWh.

>Fit @41 MPG / $90.00 mo. for 1k miles @ 2.87 gal. Bolt uses $31-33.00 elec/mo. Cost is more in winter, $41-3 probably.

<PHEV/Van, I avg getting gas [not trips] about each 60-75 days local use. with local use the Van uses under $40.00/mo. total propulsion, 1/2 gas 1/2 elec in cost approx. Ratio falls as gas prices fall, maybe 1/3 2/3 gas/elec soon...

CAR Orig COSTS:
<Got $46k [sticker] van for $28k after $10k off sticker, 10k in tax credit & DEQ rebate.

<Bolt was $33.5k, but we got $4k more than normal for the 2018 Fit in trade, no exaggeration. In total $3k less than we paid 39 months prior. And an instant $2500.00 DEQ rebate applied.

>CRV trade on the PHEV was not as good, but it was before the madness and one could get $10k off sticker dealer dead in sales late 2020.

Note: Plates for these cars costs here and a lux tax too. Bolt $1400.00 @ dealer 4/yr plates. PHEV $980.00 @ dealer 4yr plates.

Charging:
>Lived with 220v $80.00 ebay charger for a yr. then got Juice box 2x amps.
>Charger is Juicebox 32 on 40 amp breaker. Cost 650.00 with rebate.
>2 hr PHEV to full from 0 EV miles [still behaves a a hybrid with 0 EV miles], Bolt charge every other day is 4.5 hr [1k/mo use]


SUMMATION:
>Like the cars a lot. Fit was boring boring boring, Bolt = zippy zippy zippy. Van superb road car.
>Love nearly non existent fueling @ gas stations.
>Near zero Bolt and diminished PHEV maintenance.
>Total propulsion costs @ 1/3 of ICE only.
>Loved only paying total $9.00 federal income tax 2020 de to PHEV.

Pumping 90% less CO2 in use VS previous cars. Won't/Can't speak for damage to environment in manufacturing. Just acknowledge ifs/ands/buts.

EDIT:
YES: Heavy cars. >5k PHEV, >3.5k Bolt. Bolt/compact benefits greatly in the stability dept. that is 1/2 ton more curb weight than a Honda Fit.

Mention Worthy:
Winter PHEV displays just over 40MPG claimed economy, summer 55-69 MPG. I've only seen under 40MPG the first few days of ownership. We drove over 7 MTN passes with new car in winter in first few days of owning it. And 7 passes back home.