OT: It's time to pay college athletes.

[earlfoss]

I have no substance to add than to say that this is a great thread. There are some well articulated perspectives formed all along the spectrum of those engaged in the sport. This is one of the reasons why I enjoy being a part of this forum. Personally, the American addiction to football is disgusting to me. Pay the kids.

[GParkes]

I recall seeing an interview with John Salley saying he was a STUDENT- athlete, and not an athlete-student, that graduating from Georgia Tech was more important than hoops. And locally to me, Sebastian Gingras (son of NHL pro Gaston Gingras) decided to play hockey at Union College because they showed him the science labs before they showed him the rink - he got a national championship in 2014, and a degree. Should be more young men with these attitudes.

[XXtwindad]

In the wake of legendary “Coach K’s” retirement, the NYT borrowed from
Marc Antony’s playbook:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nyt...etire.amp.html

“Krzyzewski earns in the neighborhood of $10 million a year, a mogul who operates atop an economic caste system that has kept the athletes unpaid at the bottom of the barrel.”

With the ascendency of well-funded upstart leagues, (https://www.google.com/amp/s/nba.nbc...th-to-nba/amp/) a flurry of lawsuits, and Pandemic related paradigms that are here to stay, there are seismic changes on the college sports landscape.

[Ozz]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

In the wake of legendary “Coach K’s” retirement, the NYT borrowed from
Marc Antony’s playbook: ...

the ascendency of well-funded upstart leagues, (https://www.google.com/amp/s/nba.nbc...th-to-nba/amp/) a flurry of lawsuits, and Pandemic related paradigms that are here to stay, there are seismic changes on the college sports landscape.

I dunno.....I would think this just means that NBA caliber players will find routes other than college to make it to pro level.

Most the players in college are not NBA bound, and are plenty good. Maybe it brings more parity to programs, and the coaching becomes even more important?

I still think players should be compensated beyond scholarship, or at least be free to market themselves....

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by Ozz

I dunno.....I would think this just means that NBA caliber players will find routes other than college to make it to pro level.

Most the players in college are not NBA bound, and are plenty good. Maybe it brings more parity to programs, and the coaching becomes even more important?

I still think players should be compensated beyond scholarship, or at least be free to market themselves....

Yes. That’s exactly right. And that leaves college basketball programs where, exactly? Minus their fig leaves (“college experience” etc) probably.

[benb]

Pretty much any HS/Junior Pro league makes way more sense than the joke that college sports has become...

The US is pretty much the only place in the world that has Pro sports that require the athletes to go to a college and not get paid and not necessarily get to have the same quality of education as the regular students.

Even hockey and baseball here have never had this strange setup, we still have a lot of sports in the US where college is not really on the competitive path to the big leagues at all. Even some Olympic sports like gymnastics... college is mostly off the path to the Elite level.

The idea of putting a scholarship fund away for these athletes who skip out on college is a fantastic idea. Let them try for the Pros and have the scholarship fund there as a golden parachute since most of them are not going to make it.

It'd be great if the sports already off the college path did that.. Minor league baseball and hockey could do that too.

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by GParkes

I recall seeing an interview with John Salley saying he was a STUDENT- athlete, and not an athlete-student, that graduating from Georgia Tech was more important than hoops. And locally to me, Sebastian Gingras (son of NHL pro Gaston Gingras) decided to play hockey at Union College because they showed him the science labs before they showed him the rink - he got a national championship in 2014, and a degree. Should be more young men with these attitudes.

There should be more college coaches and administrators with these attitudes. In many schools, even in non-revenue sports for which going pro is virtually non-existent, coaches prohibit/coerce the athletes from pursuing certain courses/majors that might conflict with team activities. It's great when students recognize the importance of an education, but when they are focused on their sport to the exclusion of all else, they are doing exactly what most college coaches want, and are rewarded for that behavior.

[bthomas515]

Originally Posted by prototoast

There should be more college coaches and administrators with these attitudes. In many schools, even in non-revenue sports for which going pro is virtually non-existent, coaches prohibit/coerce the athletes from pursuing certain courses/majors that might conflict with team activities. It's great when students recognize the importance of an education, but when they are focused on their sport to the exclusion of all else, they are doing exactly what most college coaches want, and are rewarded for that behavior.

I work with a lot of student athletes and my experience with them is quite different. Most coaches are fine with them to take whatever classes. Most of our swimmers are actually pre-med. Because academic admission standards for athletes are different, the athletic advisors will steer them in certain directions but that is pretty normal for universities in general.

[sjbraun]

College sports should be an activity/club option for students, not a training ground for pro sports or the fulfillment of alumna's sports fantasies.
Make all college sports intramural activities, so all students can benefit from the opportunities provided by participating in sports.

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by sjbraun

College sports should be an activity/club option for students, not a training ground for pro sports or the fulfillment of alumna's sports fantasies.
Make all college sports intramural activities, so all students can benefit from the opportunities provided by participating in sports.

I have competed in NCAA sports, club sports, and intramural sports. They are all great, but they are not perfect substitutes for each other. I don't think it's necessary to throw the baby out with the bath water here, just loosen the grip of the NCAA cartel, and things will be fine.

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by prototoast

I have competed in NCAA sports, club sports, and intramural sports. They are all great, but they are not perfect substitutes for each other. I don't think it's necessary to throw the baby out with the bath water here, just loosen the grip of the NCAA cartel, and things will be fine.

You loosen the grip of the NCAA by getting rid of the NCAA.

Modest reform has not worked, because the fundamental premise is flawed. Time for wholesale change.

[vespasianus]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

In the wake of legendary “Coach K’s” retirement, the NYT borrowed from
Marc Antony’s playbook:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nyt...etire.amp.html

“Krzyzewski earns in the neighborhood of $10 million a year, a mogul who operates atop an economic caste system that has kept the athletes unpaid at the bottom of the barrel.”

With the ascendency of well-funded upstart leagues, (https://www.google.com/amp/s/nba.nbc...th-to-nba/amp/) a flurry of lawsuits, and Pandemic related paradigms that are here to stay, there are seismic changes on the college sports landscape.

You need to look at the net worth of the students that he coached. Was their time at Duke productive and did it benefit them?

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by vespasianus

You need to look at the net worth of the students that he coached. Was their time at Duke productive and did it benefit them?

A valid question. Short answer: not nearly as much as it benefited the school.

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

You loosen the grip of the NCAA by getting rid of the NCAA.

Modest reform has not worked, because the fundamental premise is flawed. Time for wholesale change.

I don't think we've seen sufficient reform to know. Personally, I think there is a compelling case that restrictions on pay (both from the schools and outside activities) should be illegal on antitrust grounds, and we haven't seen NCAA sports play out without that.

Yes, I will grant you that the NCAA, as it currently exists, exists for the purpose of exploiting students and enriching coaches and administrators. Maybe the organization itself is beyond reform, but I don't think the competitive intercollegiate athletics couldn't exist without exploiting the students.

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by prototoast

I don't think we've seen sufficient reform to know. Personally, I think there is a compelling case that restrictions on pay (both from the schools and outside activities) should be illegal on antitrust grounds, and we haven't seen NCAA sports play out without that.

Yes, I will grant you that the NCAA, as it currently exists, exists for the purpose of exploiting students and enriching coaches and administrators. Maybe the organization itself is beyond reform, but I don't think the competitive intercollegiate athletics couldn't exist without exploiting the students.

Agreed on the latter point. Intercollegiate athletics is too deeply ingrained in the social fabric to disappear entirely, and this point there's too much money in it. And there's nothing inherently wrong with college athletics, beyond the fig leaf that somehow these players are students first. As Cardale Jones said about OSU, he didn't come to campus to play school.

The NCAA has resisted serious reform for decades now, and pushed back against anything that challenges the supremacy of their cartel. The only sufficient reform as I see it is abolishing the organization and starting over with a more just bargain between the labor and capital in the system. They're not going to let athletes have a real and equal seat at the table, even though the athletes are the ones that fuel the whole enterprise.