Vanilla Limited - as classy as they come....

[Toddtwenty2]

These are quite handsome.

First in line for Ryun's Pegoretti if the Vanilla is replacing it!

[morrisond]

Originally Posted by joevers

As far as I'm concerned there's nothing that makes his bikes better than any builder charging half as much. I think he has a cult following because the amount of people that want one is way higher than the amount of people that will ever ride one. It also seems like SV is not willing to let anything under 10,000$ out the door, so all their bikes are great advertising for them, and it ensures the owners who spent a ridiculous amount of money *do* get the nicest bike they've ridden. You're paying a really ridiculous amount of money for fit, finish, and components. The frame itself doesn't do anything for me, and the exclusivity of it doesn't do a single thing for me.

Yes they are ridiculously priced. It was far from the best bike I have ever ridden/owned and I would not give them much credit for fit(geometry) or finish.

Although I probably had the best buying experience I ever had - up to the point it was delivered - and it felt awesome to finally get one (One of the first Rugged Roads back in 2015) - however reality was far worse than the dream.

I think I paid over $12,000 USD with ENVE wheels Dura Ace Mechanical Hydro and an Overt paint scheme.

Welds were really crappy. Lines in the paint did not match up at all. If you looked at the paint funny it came off. Geometry was screwed up (they (Sacha himself) insisted that it needed less head angle that caused excessive wheel flop at low speeds with smaller tires 28C Gp4's vs it's normal 35's (they knew I wanted the option of both).

The final thing that put it for sale on the Pro's closet was the lock tight I found in the BSA BB when I wanted to swap the bike to Campy - I literally had to use a hammer and punch to get it to unscrew itself. A 4' bar was not enough torque to get it to move.

I got the email that said this new one was $16,000 base price and I almost choked. Most builders don't charge significantly more for Filet than TIG (and I would be vary wary of how clean the filets are). That looks like normal Speedvagen tubing with Vanilla dropouts, and a nice Custom steel stem ($300 from a lot of builders). That paint job looks quite simple to execute - at least it will be quite easy for them to line everything up - just wrap everything around the tubes and line up the stencils..

Call it $5,000 for the frame as a more than fair price including paint.

CycleRetro charges about $600-700USD to do a Polish like that.

Alloy rims and nice hubs - $800 USD

Dura Ace Mechanical $1,300 USD

ENVE bar $300

Total about $8,400 as a more than fair price - or at least the price you pay with Dozen's of other great builders - who would probably do a better Job on the welds and durability of paint. Hell get VeloColour to paint it ($2,000 USD) the lines will be straight and the Paint will last forever - your still under $10,000.

Where is the extra $6-8,000? I know "It's Limited".

All that being said - the brand does have an appeal - but you get 99% of the experience and ownership pride from buying an OG1. If you really want an Speedvagen/Vanilla - that would be my advice buy one of those and don't care about the quality for 40% of the cost.

[s4life]

Looks "pimp", if that's your thing this should probably satisfy your visual needs

[weaponsgrade]

Originally Posted by morrisond

Yes they are ridiculously priced. It was far from the best bike I have ever ridden/owned and I would not give them much credit for fit(geometry) or finish.

Although I probably had the best buying experience I ever had - up to the point it was delivered - and it felt awesome to finally get one (One of the first Rugged Roads back in 2015) - however reality was far worse than the dream.

I think I paid over $12,000 USD with ENVE wheels Dura Ace Mechanical Hydro and an Overt paint scheme.

Welds were really crappy. Lines in the paint did not match up at all. If you looked at the paint funny it came off. Geometry was screwed up (they (Sacha himself) insisted that it needed less head angle that caused excessive wheel flop at low speeds with smaller tires 28C Gp4's vs it's normal 35's (they knew I wanted the option of both).

The final thing that put it for sale on the Pro's closet was the lock tight I found in the BSA BB when I wanted to swap the bike to Campy - I literally had to use a hammer and punch to get it to unscrew itself. A 4' bar was not enough torque to get it to move.

I got the email that said this new one was $16,000 base price and I almost choked. Most builders don't charge significantly more for Filet than TIG (and I would be vary wary of how clean the filets are). That looks like normal Speedvagen tubing with Vanilla dropouts, and a nice Custom steel stem ($300 from a lot of builders). That paint job looks quite simple to execute - at least it will be quite easy for them to line everything up - just wrap everything around the tubes and line up the stencils..

Call it $5,000 for the frame as a more than fair price including paint.

CycleRetro charges about $600-700USD to do a Polish like that.

Alloy rims and nice hubs - $800 USD

Dura Ace Mechanical $1,300 USD

ENVE bar $300

Total about $8,400 as a more than fair price - or at least the price you pay with Dozen's of other great builders - who would probably do a better Job on the welds and durability of paint. Hell get VeloColour to paint it ($2,000 USD) the lines will be straight and the Paint will last forever - your still under $10,000.

Where is the extra $6-8,000? I know "It's Limited".

All that being said - the brand does have an appeal - but you get 99% of the experience and ownership pride from buying an OG1. If you really want an Speedvagen/Vanilla - that would be my advice buy one of those and don't care about the quality for 40% of the cost.

Appreciate the review.

[joevers]

Originally Posted by morrisond

All that being said - the brand does have an appeal - but you get 99% of the experience and ownership pride from buying an OG1. If you really want an Speedvagen/Vanilla - that would be my advice buy one of those and don't care about the quality for 40% of the cost.

Appreciate this insight. It's hard to find anyone that spent that amount of money on a bike and is willing to talk about where it falls flat. I have a hard time understanding how they charge more than -for example- Stinner, Breadwinner, or any other brand making high end super oversized painted-in-the-us bikes. It's like when the hospital sends you a bill for 15,000 and you ask for a breakdown of it and it magically drops to 9,000.

There was one Speedvagen on ebay for like 17,000$ recently and the person posted the original receipt. They got charged an outrageous amount of money for simple upcharges. I want to say this person spent around 1500$ on Dt Swiss 180 hubs with a few paint stripes, and 750$ for saddle and bar tape.

[shinomaster]

So what makes this a Vanilla and not A Speedvagen?

[joep2517]

Originally Posted by Ryun

Oh man I get it.
The orange one is from the Sacha/desalvo era and so nice. I have told you in the past I wouldn’t upgrade if I were you but this one is the one I would move the orange on for.


I don’t believe pricing has been released but based on the look book
For a “normal” speedvagen plus custom, the one off bits and brazing time I’m sure it’s going to get up there

Originally Posted by Imaking20

What size SV? I may be able to help

Ryun, I still feel lucky to have that SV. It’s so easy to ride - I forget about the other bikes.

Imaking - It’s a 56, but after hearing the price I will be riding the SV for many years to come.

The classic is nice. I cannot justify buying it.

[Velocipede]

Originally Posted by charliedid;2827523[B

]Didn't you have similar done with a show bike and Campagnolo? I forget what crank but guessing forged vs bonded?[/B]

Both look great and I like seeing creative people doing creative things.

Cheers

Yes, I did. I've done a couple. But it was always on a full alloy kit. The Potenza kit from Campy doesn't have a bonded crankarm or chainring like the Dura Ace does. That's what I would worry about personally. I think the groupset looks incredible like that. But since Shimano cranks are so prone to failure at the bond, I would very concerned about it.

Originally Posted by flying

I often see this justification used but do not really understand it.

Both items being insanely priced does not justify either one being insanely priced.

Both items are "made in house"

In this case adding some quality polishing/etching on parts while not cheap is not expensive either
https://www.cycloretro.com/pricing

But yes nice Bicycle

Cycloretro charges upwards of $1000 use for a polished kit- cranks, rings, bb cups, rear and front der, brakes and levers. This includes custom panto. But it doesn't include the shipping there and back. That's about $100 to get there and about $75 back. So this group, it's about $1150 based on what I've done with Chris in the past.

Originally Posted by zzy

I agree - it's just another Vanilla (which are great, don't get me wrong) with slightly updated paint. Don't get the hype. Love the polished DA and hope Shimano takes notice..

Shimano WILL NOTICE and Japan will **** a brick. The US office, they will bring it up for sure as well. I wouldn't be surprised if they make the same comment I have- the epoxy used to bond the crank arms might get compromised by the oven cleaner used to de-anodize the arms and rings. I think it looks fantastic. Brilliantly done. But yeah, Japan will comment on it. Italy(Mr. Campagnolo) comments when it's done to the Potenza and Centaur kits. It bugs him how much press it gets too.

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

I don’t particularly care for the bikes one way or the other. I’ve always been interested in Speedvagen’s branding, though. It seems (to my mind at least) that Sasha has succeeded in a way no other U.S. builder has (save perhaps for Richard Sachs) in making the brand about him.

There seems to be a reverence for him that I don’t quite get. But I do think he’s very, very good at marketing. Better perhaps than any other frame builder.

I think there are many brands that are as defined by the man. Sachs, Speedvagen, English, De Rosa, Merckx, Colnago and many more. I don't think it's a bad thing. It's just a thing. Some have done an amazing job in the current social media realm like what Sachs, SV and English have done. Obviously, De Rosa, Merckx and some of the older generation of builders aren't as media savvy for the 21st century. But they did an amazing job when they were in their heyday.

[peanutgallery]

That's some serious sad trombones right there, thank you for sharing

Hope your next bike was a happier experience

Originally Posted by morrisond

Yes they are ridiculously priced. It was far from the best bike I have ever ridden/owned and I would not give them much credit for fit(geometry) or finish.

Although I probably had the best buying experience I ever had - up to the point it was delivered - and it felt awesome to finally get one (One of the first Rugged Roads back in 2015) - however reality was far worse than the dream.

I think I paid over $12,000 USD with ENVE wheels Dura Ace Mechanical Hydro and an Overt paint scheme.

Welds were really crappy. Lines in the paint did not match up at all. If you looked at the paint funny it came off. Geometry was screwed up (they (Sacha himself) insisted that it needed less head angle that caused excessive wheel flop at low speeds with smaller tires 28C Gp4's vs it's normal 35's (they knew I wanted the option of both).

The final thing that put it for sale on the Pro's closet was the lock tight I found in the BSA BB when I wanted to swap the bike to Campy - I literally had to use a hammer and punch to get it to unscrew itself. A 4' bar was not enough torque to get it to move.

I got the email that said this new one was $16,000 base price and I almost choked. Most builders don't charge significantly more for Filet than TIG (and I would be vary wary of how clean the filets are). That looks like normal Speedvagen tubing with Vanilla dropouts, and a nice Custom steel stem ($300 from a lot of builders). That paint job looks quite simple to execute - at least it will be quite easy for them to line everything up - just wrap everything around the tubes and line up the stencils..

Call it $5,000 for the frame as a more than fair price including paint.

CycleRetro charges about $600-700USD to do a Polish like that.

Alloy rims and nice hubs - $800 USD

Dura Ace Mechanical $1,300 USD

ENVE bar $300

Total about $8,400 as a more than fair price - or at least the price you pay with Dozen's of other great builders - who would probably do a better Job on the welds and durability of paint. Hell get VeloColour to paint it ($2,000 USD) the lines will be straight and the Paint will last forever - your still under $10,000.

Where is the extra $6-8,000? I know "It's Limited".

All that being said - the brand does have an appeal - but you get 99% of the experience and ownership pride from buying an OG1. If you really want an Speedvagen/Vanilla - that would be my advice buy one of those and don't care about the quality for 40% of the cost.

[lavi]

Originally Posted by crankles

Couldn't help myself. Raced it two weeks ago...I wasn't exactly smiling because I'm in pitiful shape, but I'm never parting with this one.

You have one of these?!? When that paint job came out, I nearly lost it. Evel Knievel was a childhood obsession. I got the OK from the Vanilla crew that they'd respray my SV in that color scheme if I ever decided to pull the trigger. I never did. But that is prolly my favorite paint job of all time. Very cool to see it!

[ibis]

Originally Posted by pdonk

And detailed pics are available

https://theradavist.com/2020/11/intr...mano-dura-ace/

No canti cx option? I'll pass

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by morrisond

Yes they are ridiculously priced. It was far from the best bike I have ever ridden/owned and I would not give them much credit for fit(geometry) or finish.

Although I probably had the best buying experience I ever had - up to the point it was delivered - and it felt awesome to finally get one (One of the first Rugged Roads back in 2015) - however reality was far worse than the dream.

I think I paid over $12,000 USD with ENVE wheels Dura Ace Mechanical Hydro and an Overt paint scheme.

Welds were really crappy. Lines in the paint did not match up at all. If you looked at the paint funny it came off. Geometry was screwed up (they (Sacha himself) insisted that it needed less head angle that caused excessive wheel flop at low speeds with smaller tires 28C Gp4's vs it's normal 35's (they knew I wanted the option of both).

The final thing that put it for sale on the Pro's closet was the lock tight I found in the BSA BB when I wanted to swap the bike to Campy - I literally had to use a hammer and punch to get it to unscrew itself. A 4' bar was not enough torque to get it to move.

I got the email that said this new one was $16,000 base price and I almost choked. Most builders don't charge significantly more for Filet than TIG (and I would be vary wary of how clean the filets are). That looks like normal Speedvagen tubing with Vanilla dropouts, and a nice Custom steel stem ($300 from a lot of builders). That paint job looks quite simple to execute - at least it will be quite easy for them to line everything up - just wrap everything around the tubes and line up the stencils..

Call it $5,000 for the frame as a more than fair price including paint.

CycleRetro charges about $600-700USD to do a Polish like that.

Alloy rims and nice hubs - $800 USD

Dura Ace Mechanical $1,300 USD

ENVE bar $300

Total about $8,400 as a more than fair price - or at least the price you pay with Dozen's of other great builders - who would probably do a better Job on the welds and durability of paint. Hell get VeloColour to paint it ($2,000 USD) the lines will be straight and the Paint will last forever - your still under $10,000.

Where is the extra $6-8,000? I know "It's Limited".

All that being said - the brand does have an appeal - but you get 99% of the experience and ownership pride from buying an OG1. If you really want an Speedvagen/Vanilla - that would be my advice buy one of those and don't care about the quality for 40% of the cost.

Insightful. Kool Aid returned.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by crankles

Couldn't help myself. Raced it two weeks ago...I wasn't exactly smiling because I'm in pitiful shape, but I'm never parting with this one.

You must be ****ting me. I’ve seen you ride before. If you’re in “pitiful” cycling shape, that doesn’t bode well for the rest of us mere mortals. (Waldo and AndySti excepted...)

[denapista]

Originally Posted by morrisond

Yes they are ridiculously priced. It was far from the best bike I have ever ridden/owned and I would not give them much credit for fit(geometry) or finish.

Although I probably had the best buying experience I ever had - up to the point it was delivered - and it felt awesome to finally get one (One of the first Rugged Roads back in 2015) - however reality was far worse than the dream.

I think I paid over $12,000 USD with ENVE wheels Dura Ace Mechanical Hydro and an Overt paint scheme.

Welds were really crappy. Lines in the paint did not match up at all. If you looked at the paint funny it came off. Geometry was screwed up (they (Sacha himself) insisted that it needed less head angle that caused excessive wheel flop at low speeds with smaller tires 28C Gp4's vs it's normal 35's (they knew I wanted the option of both).

The final thing that put it for sale on the Pro's closet was the lock tight I found in the BSA BB when I wanted to swap the bike to Campy - I literally had to use a hammer and punch to get it to unscrew itself. A 4' bar was not enough torque to get it to move.

I got the email that said this new one was $16,000 base price and I almost choked. Most builders don't charge significantly more for Filet than TIG (and I would be vary wary of how clean the filets are). That looks like normal Speedvagen tubing with Vanilla dropouts, and a nice Custom steel stem ($300 from a lot of builders). That paint job looks quite simple to execute - at least it will be quite easy for them to line everything up - just wrap everything around the tubes and line up the stencils..

Call it $5,000 for the frame as a more than fair price including paint.

CycleRetro charges about $600-700USD to do a Polish like that.

Alloy rims and nice hubs - $800 USD

Dura Ace Mechanical $1,300 USD

ENVE bar $300

Total about $8,400 as a more than fair price - or at least the price you pay with Dozen's of other great builders - who would probably do a better Job on the welds and durability of paint. Hell get VeloColour to paint it ($2,000 USD) the lines will be straight and the Paint will last forever - your still under $10,000.

Where is the extra $6-8,000? I know "It's Limited".

All that being said - the brand does have an appeal - but you get 99% of the experience and ownership pride from buying an OG1. If you really want an Speedvagen/Vanilla - that would be my advice buy one of those and don't care about the quality for 40% of the cost.

This story hurt my heart! YIKES!!!
Luckily I bought a Frame/Fork/Stem combo and built it myself for less than any of those prices you've listed..

[crankles]

Originally Posted by lavi

You have one of these?!? When that paint job came out, I nearly lost it. Evel Knievel was a childhood obsession. I got the OK from the Vanilla crew that they'd respray my SV in that color scheme if I ever decided to pull the trigger. I never did. But that is prolly my favorite paint job of all time. Very cool to see it!

I lucked out. Of all the surprise me, this is my fav followed by the BeeGees CX Team Bike and the 2011 Road. I too was of the EK generation. Had a kid on our street with the nickname 'weasel'. He and I would build ramps and jumps...etc. He totally embraced his nickname and his Mom made him a white cape with the huge number 1 on the back and "Evil K-Weasel" on the front. So Awesome. We use to get kids on the street to lay down like cars and we'd jump them. HA...How did we ( and they) survive childhood.