The 'Un-Official' Campagnolo Ekar thread

[iPaul]

Thanks all for the suggestions and tips.

I have checked the drop out alignment and it’s really good so no need to adjust. I will try the spray trick to see if things are tight at the lever. Lever feel is good when moving through the gears, but the chain to cog is pretty awful on those large cogs.

And yep I was speaking about crank feel without chain but I do find with wheel and chain things are tight in the system especially when shifting.

Haven’t taken it out on the road and just setting up on stand. May be a different experience once ridden.

Thanks again.

[feynman]

In general, from the dozens of pages I've read, people seem happy with their Ekar setups. Thanks for this thread, and the others. I've read them all now.

I'm trying to move to a one-bike-for-road-trails, and I think I want a gravely Ekar bike. I wouldn't have been as confident without you sharing your experiences, so...thank you.

[Baron Blubba]

Originally Posted by feynman

In general, from the dozens of pages I've read, people seem happy with their Ekar setups. Thanks for this thread, and the others. I've read them all now.

I'm trying to move to a one-bike-for-road-trails, and I think I want a gravely Ekar bike. I wouldn't have been as confident without you sharing your experiences, so...thank you.

I have Ekar on two, soon to be three, bikes and love it. Just make sure to grease all the interfaces on the cassette and crank that sucker down 50-60 nm’s and you’ll be golden. Is a 9 tooth cog optimal for friction lossless high power sprint style pedaling? No. But for all other purposes, it gives you something to push at high speeds and for that it works just fine.
All in all just a good looking, superbly functional, very practical, and *fun to operate* groupset for most purposes.

My allroad bike is 40x9-36, because I use it on fast group rides where I like that tight spacing. My gravel bike is 38x9-42. But…I think the best all ‘round set up is probably 42x10-44, actually! I’m going to try that soon.

[vespasianus]

Originally Posted by Baron Blubba

I have Ekar on two, soon to be three, bikes and love it. Just make sure to grease all the interfaces on the cassette and crank that sucker down 50-60 nm’s and you’ll be golden. Is a 9 tooth cog optimal for friction lossless high power sprint style pedaling? No. But for all other purposes, it gives you something to push at high speeds and for that it works just fine.
All in all just a good looking, superbly functional, very practical, and *fun to operate* groupset for most purposes.

My allroad bike is 40x9-36, because I use it on fast group rides where I like that tight spacing. My gravel bike is 38x9-42. But…I think the best all ‘round set up is probably 42x10-44, actually! I’m going to try that soon.

This site needs a like button, it really does. Well said Baron.

[iPaul]

Since this got kicked back up, update on my comment.

After some light riding the crank spins much better and seals and grease in the bb loosen up well. All,good.

My biggest issue with this group is the shifting. Works great on the smaller cogs but when I get up to the 3 largest ones things go bad. Chain just doesn’t want to drop down. It’s obviously friction some where as if I turn the bars things will drop. Given it’s a straight full housing with no tight bends, I’m scratching my head. My guess now, is the plastic guide at BB is tight fit around the housing and may be introducing just a hint of drag.
Other than that it is a really nice group and love the braking.

[herb5998]

Paul, it could be some drag, but you can also play with the b-angle adjustment. For some frames, I’ve found that getting it set per the instructions as a starting point, and fine tune from there.


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[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by iPaul

Since this got kicked back up, update on my comment.

After some light riding the crank spins much better and seals and grease in the bb loosen up well. All,good.

My biggest issue with this group is the shifting. Works great on the smaller cogs but when I get up to the 3 largest ones things go bad. Chain just doesn’t want to drop down. It’s obviously friction some where as if I turn the bars things will drop. Given it’s a straight full housing with no tight bends, I’m scratching my head. My guess now, is the plastic guide at BB is tight fit around the housing and may be introducing just a hint of drag.
Other than that it is a really nice group and love the braking.

Sounds like a frame design issue. No multi speed group with lever mounted shifting would be really happy with full length der housing.

[iPaul]

It could be due to the frame but things work perfect with Grx without a hint of hesitation. Another thought now that the b screw was mentioned, could be the chain length. Looking at the instruction manual they do highlight how much if the screw is exposed in relation to chain length. Could be that? I’ve tried a bunch playing with cable tension and b screw and though improvements were had, no where near what I am getting with the Grx.

I’ll need to try again when I get some time.
Thanks.

[fignon's barber]

Originally Posted by iPaul

My biggest issue with this group is the shifting. Works great on the smaller cogs but when I get up to the 3 largest ones things go bad. Chain just doesn’t want to drop down. It’s obviously friction some where as if I turn the bars things will drop. Given it’s a straight full housing with no tight bends, I’m scratching my head. My guess now, is the plastic guide at BB is tight fit around the housing and may be introducing just a hint of drag.
Other than that it is a really nice group and love the braking.

Check the tightness of the cassette lockring. Ekar, especially if it's the 9 tooth cassette, tends to loosen.

[iPaul]

Thanks, I'll check this again. Could explain a few things.
I did use a torque wrench but was a bit under the 40NM. Think I did read this should be torqued even higher than that, 45 NM so could be the reason.

[vespasianus]

Originally Posted by iPaul

Thanks, I'll check this again. Could explain a few things.
I did use a torque wrench but was a bit under the 40NM. Think I did read this should be torqued even higher than that, 45 NM so could be the reason.

Check to make sure your handlebar tape is not under the hoods and impacting the cable. The cable is actually a little exposed under there and if you put tape with glue under the hoods (I know) you will impact downshifts. I know this for a reason!

I also pull the hoods back and spray the entire area under the hood with tri-flow every now and then. Helps if there is slight hesitation with downshifts.

[gfk_velo]

That's a common problem with Ekar if the set-up isn't quite right.
Things to check ...

1. Gear hanger tightness (I'm assuming that alignment has been checked with the hanger in situ, using the wheel as a reference - normally, anyway, mis-alignment gives problems first in the mid-range, not the ends of the travel, unless it's extreme).
2. Top pivot bolt torque
3. Campagnolo Maximum Smoothness gear inner (not the standard inner / 3rd party)
4. Outer cables ends cut square and nylon liner ends "belled" slightly to minimise friction
5. Do not lubricate the inner - this can cause cable stiction as it tends to "hydraulic", i.e. the oil or grease can actually end up impeding motion
6. Metal ferrule with a "tail" (as supplied in the Maximum Smoothness cable kit), not plastic, at the RD adjuster
7. Through-axle torque.
8. Any play, with through axle at correct torque, in the wheel bearings.
9. Cassette lockring torque 55 - 65nm (normally 65nm is the absolute factory-tested max)
10. No play in the cassette body
11. Chain length
12. Check the high limit screw setting - it's easy to be misled on Ekar as the derailleur cage flares "out" slightly at the bottom.
13. Check the B-screw setting - most very wide range cassettes are extremely sensitive to this. Basically, run the RD as close to the sprockets as you can, without the cage blocking against them at any point in it's travel.

I've also found it useful to check / do three other things ...

14. It's good practice - but many mechanics don't do it - set the high limit screw *without* the cable pinched at the pinch bolt, so that you absolutely ensure that the only thing limiting the outwards movement of the RD is the limit screw. This ensures that you are not unwittingly pre-tensioning the cable.
15. When you pull the slack out of the inner cable, make sure that the cable adjuster is screwed almost all the way in and try to manage how tight you manually pull the inner cable through, so that the adjuster stays screwed into the RD as far as possible - that limits how much the adjuster "waggles" in the threads. Again, this is good practice in almost any index derailleur system.
16. Once everything is in place, shift part way up the cassette to put tension on the inner cable, undo the Ergopower mounting bolt a turn or two and push the lever hard "up" the bar to make absolutely certain the outer cable is fully seated against the washer at the base of the cable port, before re-tightening. With Ekar I have found it doubly useful to wind insulating tape all the way from the lever to the point where the bar tape will end, to secure the outer very firmly to the bar - this prevents any cable movement / creep under the handlebar tape (as well as making it easier to change the tape when you get to that point ...)


I've set up Ekar probably 100 times now with no issues ... but it does repay careful attention to the above points - being 13s, tolerances are correspondingly finer than 11s (the jump many people are making), or even than 12s, for obvious reasons ...

[iPaul]

Wow thank you all for the great insight and tips... Overall I have done and checked off all the items from 1-8 but I'm sure my cassette is not up to 55-60NM so that's an opportunity. Items 11-13 I feel have been carefully done but worth revisiting.

The other noted advice is item 16 and tape wrapping. I will redo that and use the loose lever trick.

One thing when chasing this problem of what I thought was friction I did add some shimano cable grease to the inner wire and added some dry lube at the point of curved entry to levers. Lesson learned.

I am new to new campy so this has been of great help. Shimano worked right of the box but I guess good things take a bit more work.

[cgolvin]

Quick note of appreciation to @gfk_velo for participating here.

[fignon's barber]

Originally Posted by iPaul

Thanks, I'll check this again. Could explain a few things.
I did use a torque wrench but was a bit under the 40NM. Think I did read this should be torqued even higher than that, 45 NM so could be the reason.

Another thing, if it wasn't covered already. Campy made a "running improvement" because the original spacers weren't flat enough (the tolerances must be extremely tight, or there will be movement between the 2 cassette pieces). The new upgraded spacer is a gray color. If you have black, that's the old one and you should contact campagnolo north America for replacement.