The 'Un-Official' Campagnolo Ekar thread

[mistermo]

Originally Posted by Xrslug

A creative alternative (Ekar rear der, Ekar crank, Shimano 11-42 cassette, bar end shifter, cantilever brakes):
https://forums.thepaceline.net/showt...ke+ekar&page=3

I don't get it. What problem is that setup designed to solve? Why use an EKAR RD and crankset on an otherwise 10s drivetrain?

[NHAero]

Originally Posted by Philster

While 13 speeds seems like it would be an asset with 1x, the reality is that the Ekar cassette is designed with big jumps in the gears you actually use. Campy put the tight spacing down in the bottom of the cassette where gravel bike speeds don't really live. I have a bike with Ekar and the gears on my GRX 1x bike feel more evenly spaced. snip

I agree. The 13 speed cassette I want adds a 39 and 46 to the Shimano HG800 11-34. Or something like this!

11-13-15-17-19-21-23-25-27-30-34-39-46

[RafaRides]

Does this mean that I could use my Rival 1 set up with an Ekar cassette and chain and have 13 speeds?

Originally Posted by mistermo

I saw a reference to it on their Instagram account and emailed. No link, but I have their email. This was about 6 months ago. Unless there’s been a delay, it should be pretty close.

Follow them on IG and you’ll learn more.

Here’s a screenshot of the email.



The date on the email was early February so not quite 6 months yet.

[phishrabbi]

Originally Posted by RafaRides

Does this mean that I could use my Rival 1 set up with an Ekar cassette and chain and have 13 speeds?

You're the market for this product. Ratio will sell an upgrade kit for your shifter to give you two more clicks, and campy 13 speed pullies for your rear mech.

You'll then need to buy the following:
Campy ekar Cassette
Campy Ekar Chain
Ekar crank/chainring or Ratio's 38t 110 BCD chaining.
a n3w driver for your rear hub.

If you're already using a XDR hub, it might be easier and simpler to get the 12 speed SRAM AXS compatible upgrade

[robertbb]

Originally Posted by NHAero

I agree. The 13 speed cassette I want adds a 39 and 46 to the Shimano HG800 11-34. Or something like this!

11-13-15-17-19-21-23-25-27-30-34-39-46

+1, this would be a wonderful cassette. I'd be all-in on whatever brand gave me this first.

Plot this out and wonderful things happen as far as the percentage increases at both ends (18%, 15%, 13% ............................. 13%, 15%, 18%)

Nice tight spacing in the middle, and a linear increase in percentage of jumps as speed picks up.

[RafaRides]

Thanks for the clarification. I've been thinking of getting an Ekar groupset to upgrade my Rival 1. I think at this point, I'd probably just get the Ekar completely. I do appreciate the effort that Ratio puts in to make these upgrade kits, and the fact that you can mod your existing gear.

Originally Posted by phishrabbi

You're the market for this product. Ratio will sell an upgrade kit for your shifter to give you two more clicks, and campy 13 speed pullies for your rear mech.

You'll then need to buy the following:
Campy ekar Cassette
Campy Ekar Chain
Ekar crank/chainring or Ratio's 38t 110 BCD chaining.
a n3w driver for your rear hub.

If you're already using a XDR hub, it might be easier and simpler to get the 12 speed SRAM AXS compatible upgrade

[fignon's barber]

Originally Posted by Philster

While 13 speeds seems like it would be an asset with 1x, the reality is that the Ekar cassette is designed with big jumps in the gears you actually use. Campy put the tight spacing down in the bottom of the cassette where gravel bike speeds don't really live.

Using Ekar 42 ring with a 9-42 cassette, the difference in gear inches between cogs (starting from 9-10, 10-11, on down) is:
12.4
10.0
8.41
6.05
5.26
9.75
7.89
8.68
8.42
7.36
6.05
4.47

As you can see, really no big gaps in the gears, especially those used more for gravel. And, of course, no overlapping.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by fignon's barber

Using Ekar 42 ring with a 9-42 cassette, the difference in gear inches between cogs (starting from 9-10, 10-11, on down) is:
12.4
10.0
8.41
6.05
5.26
9.75
7.89
8.68
8.42
7.36
6.05
4.47

As you can see, really no big gaps in the gears, especially those used more for gravel. And, of course, no overlapping.

What matters isn't the difference in gear inches, it is the relative difference in gear ratios (in percent). The relative ratios from 9-10, 10-11, etc are:

11.1%
10.0%
9.1%
8.3%
7.7%
14.3%
12.5%
16.7%
19.0%
20.0%
20.0%
16.7%

So the relative size jumps at the small end of the cassette are appreciably larger than the relative size jumps at the large end of the cassette (about twice as large actually).

[fignon's barber]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

What matters isn't the difference in gear inches, it is the relative difference in gear ratios (in percent). The relative ratios from 9-10, 10-11, etc are:

11.1%
10.0%
9.1%
8.3%
7.7%
14.3%
12.5%
16.7%
19.0%
20.0%
20.0%
16.7%

So the relative size jumps at the small end of the cassette are appreciably larger than the relative size jumps at the large end of the cassette (about twice as large actually).

I'm not sure if % is the best way to measure. The difference between a 5lb and a 10lb dumbbell is 100%. The difference between a 100lb dumbbell and a 150lb dumbbell is only 50%. The perceived stress would feel greater with the 150lb weight, even though the percentage is smaller.

[NHAero]

Originally Posted by fignon's barber

I'm not sure if % is the best way to measure. The difference between a 5lb and a 10lb dumbbell is 100%. The difference between a 100lb dumbbell and a 150lb dumbbell is only 50%. The perceived stress would feel greater with the 150lb weight, even though the percentage is smaller.

I do % as well, because it represents the change in cadence from gear to gear.

[NHAero]

Originally Posted by fignon's barber

Using Ekar 42 ring with a 9-42 cassette, the difference in gear inches between cogs (starting from 9-10, 10-11, on down) is:
12.4
10.0
8.41
6.05
5.26
9.75
7.89
8.68
8.42
7.36
6.05
4.47

As you can see, really no big gaps in the gears, especially those used more for gravel. And, of course, no overlapping.

I can understand that riders stronger than I am need the 1T differentials at the small cogs, but I'm in those gears so infrequently as a solo, old, slow rider. My sweet spot on flat roads and little wind is about 17-18 mph, so with a 44T big ring, I'm most likely to be on the 17 or 19 in the cassette. Since I live where wind is almost constant, I'm often in the 15-17 going one direction and 19-21-23 in the other

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by fignon's barber

I'm not sure if % is the best way to measure. The difference between a 5lb and a 10lb dumbbell is 100%. The difference between a 100lb dumbbell and a 150lb dumbbell is only 50%. The perceived stress would feel greater with the 150lb weight, even though the percentage is smaller.

You're looking at it backwards. If an 100 lb. person can curl a maximum of 100 lb., then curilng a 90 lb requires only a 90% effort. At the same time, if a 200 person can curl a maximum of 200 lb, then curling 180 lb requires only a 90% effort - even though the difference in absolute weight is twice that for the 100 lb. person.

If absolute gear inches mattered, then shifting from a 38/10 gear (100 in) to a 38/9 gear (110 in) would feel the same as shifting from a 38/50 gear (20 in) to a 38/33 gear (30 in).

[Kirkspants]

Originally Posted by Wakatel_Luum

What's so bad about the mechanical version?

Campy historically is very reluctant to have amazing shifting performance with full length housing, for one.

Also, once you get used to electronic shifting it really is kind of addictive :-)

Also also, so many manufacturers are running the “fully integrated” housing systems that it really becomes technically feasible but in reality difficult to pull off quality mechanical shifting setups anymore. Speaking as a mechanic… who is turning into a cranky traditionalist.

That said, does anyone know any reliable and reproducible ways to do full length housing for Campy? I’m running Ekar on a Domane Mk. III (with the irritating behind-the-stem housing entry). Attempting to do a gravel build. One trick that has helped was SP-41 plus injecting some light Dumonde chain lube after running a cable in and out of the housing.

[Velocipede]

Originally Posted by j_gantzer

After a year on Ekar I still have my fingers crossed for an EPS version

Your fingers are going to be very cramped since Campy isn't going to be making an EPS Ekar group.

[Dave B]

Originally Posted by Kirkspants

Campy historically is very reluctant to have amazing shifting performance with full length housing, for one.

Also, once you get used to electronic shifting it really is kind of addictive :-)

Also also, so many manufacturers are running the “fully integrated” housing systems that it really becomes technically feasible but in reality difficult to pull off quality mechanical shifting setups anymore. Speaking as a mechanic… who is turning into a cranky traditionalist.

That said, does anyone know any reliable and reproducible ways to do full length housing for Campy? I’m running Ekar on a Domane Mk. III (with the irritating behind-the-stem housing entry). Attempting to do a gravel build. One trick that has helped was SP-41 plus injecting some light Dumonde chain lube after running a cable in and out of the housing.

This!!

We carry Scott, Specialized, Trek, Cervelo, Allied, Look, Norco, Factor, and Pinarello at my shop and having to make sure you know how each manufacture and their "best version ever" proprietary system works for all their clever models. It is comical.

We rarely get Campy builds (except for my own stuff) until Mistermo brings me his Aspero and Ekar group to build. Stoked to get my hands on the stuff.

Steve, I am waiting!!!!