OT: Electric Vehicles--anyone driving them or seriously looked at them?

[jtakeda]

Originally Posted by robt57

Fast charging not at home, so you know. Level 3 DC fast will be @ commercial stations.

Level 2 @ home, your local utility may have rebate on the charging system too.

Max level 2 rate is 7.4kWh. [googling] So a 32a unit on a 40a 220v breaker will do that rate. This is what we use for Bolt and PHEV Pacifica.

So 2 hours, 15kWh added, 4hr=30, 5hr-45. last charging input slows rate when nearer to full on ours, should be same with IQ5.

Bigger optional battery those have 77.4kWh capacity, standard 58kWh. But may be a few cfg depending if one motor or two 2WD VS AWD. etc.

Holy moly. It takes 7.4kwh to charge an EV?

I don’t see how we can make enough renewable energy to support thousands of these

[NHAero]

Originally Posted by benb

If/when we get even 1 vehicle I think I'm going to have an electrician come in and set up 2x 60A/240V stations in the garage.
Snip

Unless you both are driving a lot more than most people, 1 charger should do the trick. Even a 7.2 kW charger (32A, 40A/240V breaker) overnight is going to put 170 miles of range into an EV (7.2 kW x 8 hrs x 3 kWh/mile). So you charge on alternate nights.

We charged the Bolt 25 nights in the last 5+ months, 3,000 miles, and that's cold weather driving (less efficient, more heat needed). Average is once every six days or so.

[bfd]

Originally Posted by jtakeda

Holy moly. It takes 7.4kwh to charge an EV?

I don’t see how we can make enough renewable energy to support thousands of these

No, it doesn't take 7.4kw to charge an EV. You can use a 110v outlet to charge an EV. It's just going to be slow like 5-6 miles/hour. At that speed it is going to take like 15+ hours to add 100 miles of range...That's considered Level 1 charging.

For Level 2 charging, you can use a 220/240v outlet, like an existing dryer outlet, to get anywhere from 20-50 miles/hour. Most of my friends have installed a level 2 charger that gets them like 45-50 miles/hr. In my case, I have a 220v dryer outlet, so with a 10-30 NEMA plug from Tesla, I am able to charge at max of 24 miles/hr. But that works for me since I'm using off-peak hours (midnight to 3pm) to charge and can get to 80% overnight. That's also the cheapest way around here.

For those days, when i forget to charge and need to add miles, it makes sense to go to a Supercharger, which is level 3 charging that charges at 250kw. I also do this for trips and can easily add 100+ miles of range in like 15-20 minutes. The cost, at least here in SF, is about $0.45/kw and is about the same as peak time cost of $0.43/kw. Since the level 3 is substantially faster, it makes sense.

Of course, YMMV!

Good Luck!

[jtakeda]

Originally Posted by bfd

No, it doesn't take 7.4kw to charge an EV. You can use a 110v outlet to charge an EV. It's just going to be slow like 5-6 miles/hour. At that speed it is going to take like 15+ hours to add 100 miles of range...That's considered Level 1 charging.

For Level 2 charging, you can use a 220/240v outlet, like an existing dryer outlet, to get anywhere from 20-50 miles/hour. Most of my friends have installed a level 2 charger that gets them like 45-50 miles/hr. In my case, I have a 220v dryer outlet, so with a 10-30 NEMA plug from Tesla, I am able to charge at max of 24 miles/hr. But that works for me since I'm using off-peak hours (midnight to 3pm) to charge and can get to 80% overnight. That's also the cheapest way around here.

For those days, when i forget to charge and need to add miles, it makes sense to go to a Supercharger, which is level 3 charging that charges at 250kw. I also do this for trips and can easily add 100+ miles of range in like 15-20 minutes. The cost, at least here in SF, is about $0.45/kw and is about the same as peak time cost of $0.43/kw. Since the level 3 is substantially faster, it makes sense.

Of course, YMMV!

Good Luck!

I’m about to do a big electrical upgrade at my house and was considering adding enough solar for the possibility of a future EV but that’s a big load. Level 1 charging is too slow, so level 2 is the only realistic thing.

If I consider in October/November the sun is down before I get home I’d need 15kw (2 hours) worth of power to charge. That’s a little rich for my blood

[bfd]

Originally Posted by jtakeda

I’m about to do a big electrical upgrade at my house and was considering adding enough solar for the possibility of a future EV but that’s a big load. Level 1 charging is too slow, so level 2 is the only realistic thing.

If I consider in October/November the sun is down before I get home I’d need 15kw (2 hours) worth of power to charge. That’s a little rich for my blood

You should be able to add 220/240v (level 2) charging to your house as that is what home appliances like an electric dryer use.

You don’t need level 3 charging and Tesla recommends it for only trips. With the Tesla v3 chargers, it’s supposed to charge at like 1000 miles/hr. The highest I’ve ever seen was 860 miles/hr and that’s only for a few minutes in the beginning of the charge.

Good Luck!

[mpken]

I get by with 110v 12a charging from home. I have a 45 mile round trip work commute, 4 days a week. Battery use is about 10-14% on a work day and can charge about 11% overnight (8pm to 6am, 10 kwh). Peak electricity rate at home is 4-8pm, so I avoid charging during those hours.

I considered installing the Level 2 charger and even bought the charger, but haven't installed it yet. My employer is planning to provide free charging soon, so I'm holding off on installing the Level 2 home charger. Charging all day on Friday when working from home gets the battery to a good level ( ~80%) heading into the weekend.

[jtakeda]

Originally Posted by bfd

You should be able to add 220/240v (level 2) charging to your house as that is what home appliances like an electric dryer use.

You don’t need level 3 charging and Tesla recommends it for only trips. With the Tesla v3 chargers, it’s supposed to charge at like 1000 miles/hr. The highest I’ve ever seen was 860 miles/hr and that’s only for a few minutes in the beginning of the charge.

Good Luck!

Propane appliances. I’m not attached to a grid. I was hoping EV drew something like 3-4kw but I guess that’s optimistic

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by saab2000

I would still do the upgrade at home. Home charging is, IMHO, the magic of EV ownership. Disregarding the convenience, which is huge, it's also cheaper for most people. I paid $.38/KwH at Tesla Superchargers on a recent trip to Michigan. At home in a western suburb of Chicago I pay about $.12/Kwh.

Finally, Tesla recommends home charging for their vehicles for most usage, reserving Supercharging for times when home charging isn't available. It is easier on the battery AFAIK.

Doing the upgrade at your house, however you choose to do it, will eventually likely pay for itself financially and it is just massively more convenient to charge when the car is idle in my garage.

Question..if you do install a 'Tesla' charger at home..Does this come from Tesla? Or some company that makes a Tesla compatible charger?
And if it DOES come from Tesla...as you charge, does any $ go to Tesla?
Like the dedicated Tesla chargers you see in shopping center parking lots?
From Ozz-

We ended up not doing it....holding off until we were closer to actually having an EV.

+1..I wouldn't even consider a home charger until I got an EV. Plus, as EVs improve, chargers will too and I think the cost to install will come down too..

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Question..if you do install a 'Tesla' charger at home..Does this come from Tesla? Or some company that makes a Tesla compatible charger?
And if it DOES come from Tesla...as you charge, does any $ go to Tesla?
Like the dedicated Tesla chargers you see in shopping center parking lots?
From Ozz-


+1..I wouldn't even consider a home charger until I got an EV. Plus, as EVs improve, chargers will too and I think the cost to install will come down too..

I ordered the connector from Tesla. Whether or not they actually physically manufactured it or had it done for them I don't know. But you can order it on their website.

No money would go to Tesla when I charge at home any more than your cell phone provides income to the manufacturer of that phone when you charge. It's simply a level 2 connector that they sell which will allow far more rapid charging than the level 1 connector that came with the car when I bought it.

I assume Tesla makes a profit when they sell their Wall Connector. It isn't a source of revenue for them after it is installed.

The level 1 connector plugs into a regular wall outlet. The level 2 connector must be hard wired to your house.

That said, they also sell (or you can purchase from other sources) adapters for various types of outlets, including a typical NEMA outlet for a dryer. They sell this stuff to make it easier for owners to charge at home, which is how they recommend keeping it charged.

Tesla Superchargers that you see in parking lots of stores occasionally are manufactured by Tesla in Buffalo, NY.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by saab2000

I ordered the connector from Tesla. Whether or not they actually physically manufactured it or had it done for them I don't know. But you can order it on their website.

No money would go to Tesla when I charge at home any more than your cell phone provides income to the manufacturer of that phone when you charge. It's simply a level 2 connector that they sell which will allow far more rapid charging than the level 1 connector that came with the car when I bought it.

I assume Tesla makes a profit when they sell their Wall Connector. It isn't a source of revenue for them after it is installed.

The level 1 connector plugs into a regular wall outlet. The level 2 connector must be hard wired to your house.

That said, they also sell (or you can purchase from other sources) adapters for various types of outlets, including a typical NEMA outlet for a dryer. They sell this stuff to make it easier for owners to charge at home, which is how they recommend keeping it charged.

Tesla Superchargers that you see in parking lots of stores occasionally are manufactured by Tesla in Buffalo, NY.

Thanks..I ask about $ going to Tesla because if you charge at a Tesla charging station, Tesla does indeed get paid something..right?

Kinda like a 'Ford' gas station..Money smart, making a unique charging system, network that generates $.

[Ozz]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

...
+1..I wouldn't even consider a home charger until I got an EV. Plus, as EVs improve, chargers will too and I think the cost to install will come down too..

To clarify...our bid did not include the charger...just the circuit:

Install dedicated circuit for car charger outlet, Nema 14-50, in the garage of the home
within 60 feet of the existing panel.
Wire new 50 amp rated wire to contractor supplied Nema 14-50 240v. outlet. The outlet set
up is universal set up for many different brand of charging cords and plug in wall
chargers. Includes GFCI breaker, anti-shock protection, which is required to meet the
minimum safety standard.
Charger supplied by other

[bfd]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Thanks..I ask about $ going to Tesla because if you charge at a Tesla charging station, Tesla does indeed get paid something..right?

Kinda like a 'Ford' gas station..Money smart, making a unique charging system, network that generates $.

Yup, and this is the genius of Elon Musk. He knew that if EVs were ever going to take off, he had to be able to provide places for them to charge. So he build the Supercharger network designed to work with the Tesla charger, now known as the North American Charging Standard (NACS). This allows Teslas to travel across the US. With other EVs coming to market, all who use other charging standards like the Combined Charging System (CCS), they are not compatible with the Supercharger network.

However, this year the Biden admin negotiated a deal with Tesla that will allow other mfrs using CCS to charge at Tesla Superchargers. Tesla will be paid billions and adapt some of their chargers to accept CCS via something they call Magic Dock. The program just started at some NY and SoCal locations. It will spread and the superchargers will get very crowded. lol

Tesla makes it very easy to charge at its Supercharger stations. You drive up, back in, plug in and go! It's so simple. Further, when Tesla puts in a supercharger, they don't just put in 2 or 3 chargers, they put in at least 10 chargers and on a busy stretch like I-5 between SF and LA, you can stop off at Harris Ranch where there are like 50 chargers! lol

In contrast, I heard that charging at other EV stations by EA, Chargepoint, EVgo and others can be an adventure as there are complaints of broken cables, card readers not working, etc. Not good when you need a charge!

So bash Elon for making money, but he had the foresight to build the best charging system in the world.

In contrast, Toyota and others are trying to push hydrogen for their fuel cell cars. However, unlike Tesla, they haven't built any hydrogen stations. Instead, they depend on the government or others to build the hydrogen filling infrastructure. Not good as there are very few hydrogen stations in a crowded area like the SF Bay Area. So if you need to "fill up," you need to find a station...Good Luck!

[robt57]

Originally Posted by jtakeda

Holy moly. It takes 7.4kwh to charge an EV?

I don’t see how we can make enough renewable energy to support thousands of these

7.4 kw per hour rate of storing into vehicle

[robt57]

Originally Posted by NHAero

Unless you both are driving a lot more than most people, 1 charger should do the trick. Even a 7.2 kW charger (32A, 40A/240V breaker) overnight is going to put 170 miles of range into an EV (7.2 kW x 8 hrs x 3 kWh/mile). So you charge on alternate nights.

We charged the Bolt 25 nights in the last 5+ months, 3,000 miles, and that's cold weather driving (less efficient, more heat needed). Average is once every six days or so.

+1

We charge the Bolt and The PHEV Pacifica on one charger. It is big enough to charge both at fastest L2 rate the cars can accept. It is 220v/40a breaker 32a charger.

Before that charger, we shared smaller one on a 220v/20a breaker 16a. Did not have sharing issues with that one, but with two full EVs I can see it could.

But I like always getting to Bolt done and unplugged and staged for wife a.m. commute before I go to bed. The smaller level 2 that was not happening.

The smaller one is on line and once in a great while both are plugged in same time. But the bigger charge fill an empty PHEV in 1:55, 1/2 the time of the smaller one. So 99% of the time it is used, and is a smart unit with app and data I can calc the actual cost the car are using.

Just me, but I will not charge a EV nor put a ICE vehicle in an attached garage. It's full of bikes anyway...

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Thanks..I ask about $ going to Tesla because if you charge at a Tesla charging station, Tesla does indeed get paid something..right?

Kinda like a 'Ford' gas station..Money smart, making a unique charging system, network that generates $.

Tesla definitely uses their Supercharger network to make money. It's crucial to their business because without it the whole fleet of cars they make would have vastly reduced practicality. As someone else mentioned, this network is really the genius of Tesla. IMHO.

As to the Ford gas station? Pretty much. Though I don't think that was necessarily their intent. But they developed their Supercharger network alongside the expansion of their national scope and as the number of cars increased.

Tesla uses their own standard of connector, but has released it as an open source concept I believe. Other manufacturers could use that standard, though I'm not sure that would necessarily open the Supercharger network to the other brands. That could likely be worked out though.

Nissan used a different standard when they brought out the Leaf EV. Not sure what others used but they were produced in such small numbers and with such low capacity I'm sure they just plugged into a wall outlet. I give full credit to Nissan for trying something new with the Leaf, but Tesla went really next level with the Model S in larger scale production numbers. All others followed and created a different charging standard.

The only other brand that I'm aware of that has adopted the NACS (North American Charging Standard) is Aptera, a tiny startup that I don't believe has even actually produced any vehicles for sale yet to the public. They're radically aerodynamic and are probably not going to survive because it is basically a cross between a car and a motorcycle, but the idea looks really cool. I love when people forget all the rules and forge ahead. I hope they find their niche and survive.

It can also self charge when parked outdoors as it has solar panels built in and because it is small and light, the battery is far smaller than any other EV.