(Rant warning) Rene Herse tires poorly designed for tubeless?

[Jan Heine]

I agree with you – it's a difficult trade-off. We're constantly evaluating the situation. The big question really is what diameter a rim should be. Then we can size the tires accordingly.

Right now, there are the old ETRTO standards that were adopted by ISO, but nobody seems to care. In some cases, that may make sense, like eliminating the hooks on carbo rims. In other cases, like reducing the G height (the height of the sidewall that holds the tire), it's inviting trouble. In any case, the old standards aren't for tubeless. Hopefully, new standards will emerge soon. And hopefully, rim makers will then stick to those standards.

Originally Posted by mtechnica

Well thanks for the civil response and explanation. It sounds like you’re trying to do the right thing. I know you are right about rim variability. That said I can’t help but wonder if it would be better and safer to err on the side of a tight fit rather than cater to whoever has the largest rim (enve? I would think the vast majority of people don’t have enves) but it’s not my call.

[denapista]

The thing that's being lost in "Why do people go tubeless?" is the weight of the tube. I have Switchback hills and they ride like nothing else out there, but damn the tubes I have feel like they're 2LBS each. I would go tubeless just to shed that weight.

I'm truly want to go to a 29er setup on my CRUST, just to run latex tubes in 700c sizing.

Are there any light 650b tube options?

[dbnm]

So we should adapt the wheel industry to meet the tire industry? Or to meet one maker of tires?

This is nuts.

Ride the brand in question and take the chance.

--

Has any other tire company such as Panaracer, Schwalbe, WTB, Maxxis, Kenda, Hutchinson, Mavic, had a problem with their tires blowing off of rims? I am asking because I don't know.

[HTupolev]

Originally Posted by denapista

The thing that's being lost in "Why do people go tubeless?" is the weight of the tube. I have Switchback hills and they ride like nothing else out there, but damn the tubes I have feel like they're 2LBS each. I would go tubeless just to shed that weight.

I'm truly want to go to a 29er setup on my CRUST, just to run latex tubes in 700c sizing.

Are there any light 650b tube options?

Your best bet might be to use a lightweight 26er tube, like a Vittoria Competition Latex 26 x 1.7-2.3, or a Schwalbe SV14.

[Jan Heine]

The issues with tires blowing off are all over the industry. I don't want to name names, but I know of incidents for most of the brands you mention below.

It is true that supple high-end tires require tighter tolerances than stiff tires, and higher pressures – as you ride on all-road bikes – require tighter tolerances as well (compared to mtb). So out-of-spec rims will more likely result in problems with our tires than with many others, but the only alternative is make stiffer tires, and that sort of defeats the purpose of why we started our company in the first place.

We're not asking the wheel industry to adapt to our tires, just make their rims to close tolerances and to meet the existing ISO standards. As I mentioned, most high-end rims have no trouble. It's not just carbon wheels from Enve and Zipp, but also the HED and Pacenti rims we sell.

So while we could make the tires smaller to accommodate out-of-spec rims found on many OEM wheels, it would make tire mounting much harder on rims that meet the current ISO standards –*including the ones we sell. And we're not the only ones – that's why there is an international push for tubeless standards.

And as many mentioned, if you're running tubes until all this has settled, you aren't giving up much (unless you live in goathead country).

Jan Heine
Rene Herse Cycles

Originally Posted by dbnm

So we should adapt the wheel industry to meet the tire industry? Or to meet one maker of tires?

Has any other tire company such as Panaracer, Schwalbe, WTB, Maxxis, Kenda, Hutchinson, Mavic, had a problem with their tires blowing off of rims? I am asking because I don't know.

[owly]

Originally Posted by denapista

The thing that's being lost in "Why do people go tubeless?" is the weight of the tube. I have Switchback hills and they ride like nothing else out there, but damn the tubes I have feel like they're 2LBS each. I would go tubeless just to shed that weight.

I'm truly want to go to a 29er setup on my CRUST, just to run latex tubes in 700c sizing.

Are there any light 650b tube options?

I ran Tubolito S-Tubo in the SBH for a bit.

They do have their issues at times. For example, one recently broke lower down on the stem, after I had pumped it up. (No nut to screw down on the stem; hold in place nicely against rim).

[bironi]

Well this covers most of us, right.
J.H.'s words,

And as many mentioned, if you're running tubes until all this has settled, you aren't giving up much (unless you live in goathead country).

Good night.

[mtechnica]

Originally Posted by bironi

Well this covers most of us, right.
J.H.'s words,

And as many mentioned, if you're running tubes until all this has settled, you aren't giving up much (unless you live in goathead country).

Good night.

I dunno man imho you’d be out of your mind to use tubes on a MTB or gravel bike, you’d be giving up lots.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by mtechnica

I dunno man imho you’d be out of your mind to use tubes on a MTB or gravel bike, you’d be giving up lots.

The answer is out there..probably less mess than sealant goop-age..

And yes, ya gotta glue them on properly...Not rocket surgery, as they say.

[KonaSS]

Originally Posted by Jan Heine

And as many mentioned, if you're running tubes until all this has settled, you aren't giving up much (unless you live in goathead country).

Jan Heine
Rene Herse Cycles

Wholeheartedly disagree for tires above 32 width. Non-tubeless is a non-starter.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by KonaSS

Wholeheartedly disagree for tires above 32 width. Non-tubeless is a non-starter.

The only Tubes worth running ...

[denapista]

Originally Posted by HTupolev

Your best bet might be to use a lightweight 26er tube, like a Vittoria Competition Latex 26 x 1.7-2.3, or a Schwalbe SV14.

Tell me more... 26in tubes will work in 27.5 wheels? I'm guessing YES due to Latex stretching abilities..

[Wattvagen]

Originally Posted by denapista

Tell me more... 26in tubes will work in 27.5 wheels? I'm guessing YES due to Latex stretching abilities..

many tubes are dual advertised as both 650B and 26"

[mtechnica]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

The answer is out there..probably less mess than sealant goop-age..

And yes, ya gotta glue them on properly...Not rocket surgery, as they say.

Or just use something like thunder burts that roll super fast and are reliable tubeless tires just sayin

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by Jan Heine

The issues with tires blowing off are all over the industry. I don't want to name names, but I know of incidents for most of the brands you mention below.

Stuff like this has held me off from trying road tubeless. Why cant the industry (and by the industry, I mean the big players and OEMS) get their thumbs out of their asses and make this easier for consumers?

I've never had a tire blow off with a MTB or CX/Gravel tire and I was definitely cobbling **** together in the early days with gorilla tape, ratchet straps and spraying sealant all over my kitchen....