... In search of the obscure.

[tv_vt]

Originally Posted by colker

It also means old, important, historical but not being sold at my LBS or advertized everywhere.

Yeah, I'm fine with that. For example, any Look carbon frame older than the 585 era is obscure to me. Most 80's and 90's pro steel frames could fit that definition, too. Certainly a Basso Gap is pretty obscure these days.

[colker]

Paris Roubaix is an obscure sports event in Europe if you ask the majority of americans.

[colker]

De Rosa is an obscure name in America. Bruce Gordon is an obscure name in America! Charlie Cunningham is an obscure Mountain Bike designer in America!
Maybe it´s me but i find "obscure" kind of insulting to any professional working hard at his craft.

[colker]

Originally Posted by tv_vt

Yeah, I'm fine with that. For example, any Look carbon frame older than the 585 era is obscure to me. Most 80's and 90's pro steel frames could fit that definition, too. Certainly a Basso Gap is pretty obscure these days.

It´s not obscure.. it´s you who don´t know and i mean this as pure logical argument.
To most out there The Republic is an obscure book.. is Plato an obscure writer? No; it´s maybe the most important. No one needs to know everything but no name is necessarily obscure because you never heard of it.

[d_douglas]

Originally Posted by colker

De Rosa is an obscure name in America. Bruce Gordon is an obscure name in America! Charlie Cunningham is an obscure Mountain Bike designer in America!
Maybe it´s me but i find "obscure" kind of insulting to any professional working hard at his craft.

Its not an insult at all - it is just the combination of factors of geography, regionalism, marketing and the internet.

As Ive said, my local example is of Chris Dekerf. He's made 1000's (10000's I am sure) of frames and is a master framebuilder, yet he isnt really well known outside of Western Canada, bike geek worlds and probably the metal fabrications world (which I am not a part of).

[tv_vt]

Originally Posted by colker

It´s not obscure.. it´s you who don´t know and i mean this as pure logical argument.
To most out there The Republic is an obscure book.. is Plato an obscure writer? No; it´s maybe the most important. No one needs to know everything but no name is necessarily obscure because you never heard of it.

You didn't get my drift. I know of the earlier Looks and earlier steel frames. I've been here a long time. To me, obscure just means rare, not seen often. I don't see bikes like that very often, compared to the endless Treks, Cdales, Speczld, Scott, etc.

[merckxman]

Do you see many DeKerf road bikes? My impression is that he is much better known for MTBs. Anyway, my DeKerf road bike brings me a lot of joy on the roads of NJ.

Originally Posted by d_douglas

Its not an insult at all - it is j
ust the combination of factors of geography, regionalism, marketing and the internet.

As Ive said, my local example is of Chris Dekerf. He's made 1000's (10000's I am sure) of frames and is a master framebuilder, yet he isnt really well known outside of Western Canada, bike geek worlds and probably the metal fabrications world (which I am not a part of).

[d_douglas]

Originally Posted by tv_vt

To me, obscure just means rare, not seen often. I don't see bikes like that very often, compared to the endless Treks, Cdales, Speczld, Scott, etc.

That isn’t my take: I rarely see a Ferrari in my city, but I am well aware of what it is. My original post was more intended to see how people strive for rarity, boutique or exclusive items that in our case, is bikes.

I feel like now I am past the Serotta stage of my life, In spite of their reputation for being excellent bikes, and am looking for more rare birds to satisfy my interests (like a Retrotec handmade hardtail?!)

[colker]

Originally Posted by d_douglas

That isn’t my take: I rarely see a Ferrari in my city, but I am well aware of what it is. My original post was more intended to see how people strive for rarity, boutique or exclusive items that in our case, is bikes.

I feel like now I am past the Serotta stage of my life, In spite of their reputation for being excellent bikes, and am looking for more rare birds to satisfy my interests (like a Retrotec handmade hardtail?!)

Handcraft, custom, not made in batches .. that´s what you are looking for.

[jamesdak]

Originally Posted by d_douglas

That isn’t my take: I rarely see a Ferrari in my city, but I am well aware of what it is. My original post was more intended to see how people strive for rarity, boutique or exclusive items that in our case, is bikes.

I feel like now I am past the Serotta stage of my life, In spite of their reputation for being excellent bikes, and am looking for more rare birds to satisfy my interests (like a Retrotec handmade hardtail?!)

Finding something different is a lot of what drives my collection of steel bikes. I dig finding a bike I've never heard of and then trying to find out as much as I can about the builder and other bikes.

A few more examples of my rides.

This Jan De Reus, I'm the 4th owner and there's been about 1/2 dozen known in the U.S.



Then the Duell was unheard of too me but is another more known builder overseas with a good rep. This beauty is about to get built up with 11 speed Super Record.



The latest mystery is this Lecoulant that others think might be made by Alain Michel of France. Haven't pinned this down for certain but it's still something you don't see around everyday.

[pdonk]

Originally Posted by d_douglas

Its not an insult at all - it is just the combination of factors of geography, regionalism, marketing and the internet.

As Ive said, my local example is of Chris Dekerf. He's made 1000's (10000's I am sure) of frames and is a master framebuilder, yet he isnt really well known outside of Western Canada, bike geek worlds and probably the metal fabrications world (which I am not a part of).

Love my 1996ish team sl. Its been ridden in 5 provinces, east on Manitoba and 4 states.

His attention to detail, especially for a batch built bike is incredible.

[oliver1850]

Originally Posted by davidb

Primus Mootry/ Joe DePalmalaere, made the frames I long for. Aluminum with big welds, stays and tubes. Even tracked one down knew it was not going to fit. Purchased it anyway. Still did not fit. My friend who is just a little taller got a great deal. I'm pretty sure he quit. Bummer!

Joe is known for AL, but also built steel frames. I put a lot of gravel miles on a steel PM CX. Great frame which I would still own if it had been closer to my size.

[d_douglas]

While I lived in Switzerland, I saw many completely obscure (to me) bikes just locked up on the street or at the local thrift shop. I helped a friend buy a mixte with a name something like “Borga” or possibly “Borg A” and the lugwork was amazing - precise, thinned points, impeccably welded. It even had a great old Campy group!

Anyways, vintage bikes aren’t my thing, but the quality of that build was very high. I imagine that bike was known to a few Europeans though, but not to me...

Finding something different is a lot of what drives my collection of steel bikes. I dig finding a bike I've never heard of and then trying to find out as much as I can about the builder.

The latest mystery is this Lecoulant that others think might be made by Alain Michel of France. Haven't pinned this down for certain but it's still something you don't see around everyday.

[Desert Fox]

Fun topic, open to many interpretations...

Geographical bias certainly plays a part, but here are some “obscure” builders that don’t seem to get much mention on this forum:

DeAnima (the other Pegoretti, in carbon)
Le Vacon (French titanium)
Mariposa (Michael Barry, Jr)
Columbine
Kelson

Based in Japan, builders including:
Kualis
Equilibrium
Kalavinka
Ravanello

[philhan89]

Steve Potts.