Moots Carbon Gravel E-bike!

[tomato coupe]

How is it legal for a company to sell a product that a few people on an internet forum don't want to buy? Can't this be outlawed?

[RWL2222]

Kinda like Porsche launching an SUV so long ago.

[AngryScientist]

Brand dilution.

[FriarQuade]

Originally Posted by Toddtwenty2

In my view, Firefly wins this e-bike round:

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=242535

https://fireflybicycles.com/ebike-upgrade/

Few things look worse to me than a giant battery bolted onto the downtube. But if you like it, by all means.

[FriarQuade]

Originally Posted by David Kirk

I can understand why they would want to expand their product offering. Sales of metal bikes overall are slipping and I know that Moots has had a hard time and laid off some good people recently. If there are new owners/investors they need to figure out a way to grow a shrinking business to protect their investment. Selling more Ti bikes is an upstream swim and it could very well require more investments in people and tooling which they will be hesitant to do.

But if you can pay a 3rd party to make the bikes for you and you only need to bring them in and put a new shipping label on the box and send it off to a Moots dealer that is a full-on win. And since the real growth and profit in the bike biz is coming from e-bikes that is the low hanging fruit to grab first if trying to grow your bike biz.

The days of making large numbers of handbuilt bikes in the USA are over. There is just no way to do it and keep the lights on and the investors happy. Moots (and many others like them) need to adapt or they will die. Simple as that.

I wish them luck. It’s a brave move and it could work or it could backfire. But doing nothing and hoping that suddenly more people understand handmade goods and want to buy them is certain death for many like Moots.

dave

Well said.

I will add that if revenue growth is what they're after there is a lot of space below their Ti offerings where they could have explored. Relaunching steel bikes would have been pretty easy for them and not pissed off the bike internet for a day. But I don't know how much capacity they have at the current factory, if they want to grow beyond capacity then the carbon bike makes a lot of sense.

I'll also say, it's absurd to buy a company like this and think you're going to massively improve revenue. You buy Moots because it's something cool to tell your rich friends about. Then you hope that it pays a bit of a dividend every year and that the value keeps up with inflation. Basically it's a savings account for several million dollars.

[jimoots]

Moots current website title: Premium Titanium Bikes Made in the USA.

Moots Express: A very "me too" carbon fibre gravel bike made in China.

So b. This is the day when Moots jumped the shark.

I take the point about commercial realities however you can mean a hell of a lot to a small group of people, or mean very little to a lot. As with a lot of this stuff we are privileged to not be in the room while making decisions, but I do hope there were some loud voices telling the protagonist for this project that it was a bad idea.

[Clean39T]

I think it’s awesome. I bought my spouse a Canyon Grail:ON and now she can motor along next to me while I suffer or kick my arse up a climb.. I’ve played around on it in the neighborhood and they’re just flat out fun. I have other priorities right now but owning an e-gravel bike isn’t more than a few years off for me. And the Moots offering looks extremely competitive and well-conceived.



M

[duff_duffy]

Seven tried an all carbon bike as well. Fugly as anything I’ve ever seen

Originally Posted by Elefantino

I remember Litespeed carbon bikes.

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by Likes2ridefar

And even with those savings, to my eyes anyways, you get a better build on the Santa Cruz with AXS components. I don’t think the added range is worth the difference, but I’ve not ridden either. Maybe the Shimano drive is a lot better.

Regardless it’s ugly like most e bikes so Moots can’t argue aesthetics like their lovely Ti, and I don’t know why anyone, even a dumb dentist interested in branding (wouldn’t they get an s works?), would buy this.

Really? The Moots is such a better build and better looking bike - with a better motor/battery..

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by duff_duffy

Seven tried an all carbon bike as well. Fugly as anything I’ve ever seen

There’s something we can all agree on. The Diamas was a disaster.

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by jimoots

Moots Express: A very "me too" carbon fibre gravel bike made in China..

I’ve shopped the segment. It’s not a “me too” carbon e-bike. There’s a lot to like here vs the top offerings from Scott, Spesh, etc. Better design. Better components. Better aesthetics.

If they started a new brand “Stoom” would people simmer down some?

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

Brand dilution.

Time will tell. Was the Bontrager brand diluted when it went from being a small made-in-USA frame shop to a mass, made-in-Asia components brand?

Maybe Moots in 10 years won't resemble what it was 10 years ago, but maybe they follow in the path of a company like Ibis and end up much bigger and more profitable than they are right now.

[Burnette]

Originally Posted by redir

Right, e-bikes make a lot of sense for that market of people, those who might find it enjoyable to tool around the neighborhood, get groceries or even commute but a $10 grand 'racing machine?'

Racing bikes are often sold to enthusiasts or to those who want to cycle for fitness and probably should not be on racing bikes and they usually end up hanging them on a hook and never using them again. And of course racing bikes are sold to amateur racers. But not to that market of people.

That's why I just don't get this move by Moots. You cannot race that machine so those people are out. That leaves them with the rest that you mention and I just can't see people like that paying that kind of money on a brand they probably never even heard of.

High end bikes, high price bikes, race bikes no one will race, this all isn't new, it's actually the norm.

After being out of cycling a bit, seeing the high prices reflects everything else we're buying. High automobile prices with added additional dealer markups (ADM) are selling at a good clip. People are willing to pay (and/or get into debt) to get what they want. Reason and practically aren't the top metrics for a lot of consumers.

Again, after looking at top tier race bikes from the big brands, ask yourself who is buying them and who is actually racing on them.

The world changes, we can stay abd thoroughly where we are and watch the change, we can be a part of it, throwing stones at it isn't positive or productive though.

Speaking of high dollar E Bikes, I was browsing Officina Battaglin's web site, awesome custom steel bikes there. And they too have a bespoke E Bike. Check it out. Not for me, but for those inclined, it's a stunner:

https://forums.thepaceline.net/attac...1&d=1695258376

https://officinabattaglin.com/produc...l-bikes/fenix/

[TonyG]

As I age -like we all are doing- I'm glad that there are e-bikes out there and that companies like Moots are making more acceptable looking bikes. If not for e-bikes, in say 20 years, I couldn't enjoy ridding up Mt. Tam or riding the HWY 1 Marin coastline. As I age I don't want to be stuck sitting on a couch accelerating my physical decline because I was too much of a purist to get an e-bike.

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by TonyG

As I age -like we all are doing- I'm glad that there are e-bikes out there and that companies like Moots are making more acceptable looking bikes. If not for e-bikes, in say 20 years, I couldn't enjoy ridding up Mt. Tam or riding the HWY 1 Marin coastline. As I age I don't want to be stuck sitting on a couch accelerating my physical decline because I was too much of a purist to get an e-bike.

Wisdom.