What are you thinking, CYCLING RELATED, on tariff subject

[openwheelracing]

Originally Posted by robertbb

All well and good, but when China is an emerging and hostile superpower that is known for human rights abuses, land grabs, resource stealing and expansionism and has designs on the worlds' democratic tech-hub......... the equation changes somewhat, does it not?

I don't see how China is "hostile superpower". These people love the United States. Single handedly kept GM afloat with their obsession with Buick. They are hard working people who powered the World economy as the manufacturing hub. They make everything better than most at any given price. I get it China can be an easy target. We don't speak their language nor understand their culture. We let our politicians and media fan the new cold war narrative. Creating an enemy out of a friend is very strange to me. They have been perfectly happy as the number 2 as long as they continue to slowly prosper economically. Now we are basically forcing China to over take US. Again very strange.

-Land grabs? Huh? Are we talking about China that historically has been carved into pieces? Who have they invaded and where is that land?
-Resource stealing? You mean trade? Where are they stealing resources?
-Expansionism? Huh? Again where are you getting your news from?

[Fat Cat]

Originally Posted by openwheelracing

I don't see how China is "hostile superpower". These people love the United States. Single handedly kept GM afloat with their obsession with Buick. They are hard working people who powered the World economy as the manufacturing hub. They make everything better than most at any given price. I get it China can be an easy target. We don't speak their language nor understand their culture. We let our politicians and media fan the new cold war narrative. Creating an enemy out of a friend is very strange to me. They have been perfectly happy as the number 2 as long as they continue to slowly prosper economically. Now we are basically forcing China to over take US. Again very strange.

-Land grabs? Huh? Are we talking about China that historically has been carved into pieces? Who have they invaded and where is that land?
-Resource stealing? You mean trade? Where are they stealing resources?
-Expansionism? Huh? Again where are you getting your news from?

You need to get out more. They are buying SE Asia with " aide".

[openwheelracing]

Originally Posted by Fat Cat

You need to get out more. They are buying SE Asia with " aide".

[nmrt]

How is China a hostile superpower you ask? This is what China does to its neighbors.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/11/w...smid=url-share

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...smid=url-share

I can send more links. But this is just scratching the surface.

Originally Posted by openwheelracing

I don't see how China is "hostile superpower". These people love the United States. Single handedly kept GM afloat with their obsession with Buick. They are hard working people who powered the World economy as the manufacturing hub. They make everything better than most at any given price. I get it China can be an easy target. We don't speak their language nor understand their culture. We let our politicians and media fan the new cold war narrative. Creating an enemy out of a friend is very strange to me. They have been perfectly happy as the number 2 as long as they continue to slowly prosper economically. Now we are basically forcing China to over take US. Again very strange.

-Land grabs? Huh? Are we talking about China that historically has been carved into pieces? Who have they invaded and where is that land?
-Resource stealing? You mean trade? Where are they stealing resources?
-Expansionism? Huh? Again where are you getting your news from?

[jamesdak]

Originally Posted by openwheelracing

I don't see how China is "hostile superpower". These people love the United States. Single handedly kept GM afloat with their obsession with Buick. They are hard working people who powered the World economy as the manufacturing hub. They make everything better than most at any given price. I get it China can be an easy target. We don't speak their language nor understand their culture. We let our politicians and media fan the new cold war narrative. Creating an enemy out of a friend is very strange to me. They have been perfectly happy as the number 2 as long as they continue to slowly prosper economically. Now we are basically forcing China to over take US. Again very strange.

-Land grabs? Huh? Are we talking about China that historically has been carved into pieces? Who have they invaded and where is that land?
-Resource stealing? You mean trade? Where are they stealing resources?
-Expansionism? Huh? Again where are you getting your news from?

Wow..... you really, really need to do some research if this is truly what you think.

[openwheelracing]

Originally Posted by nmrt

How is China a hostile superpower you ask? This is what China does to its neighbors.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/11/w...smid=url-share

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...smid=url-share

I can send more links. But this is just scratching the surface.

We can have a link war if you like but it would be pointless. Plus you probably can't understand due to language barrier. You clearly consume one sided media. I don't blame you it is just the nature of our media at the moment. You only know half the story. Taiwan has been plagued with PI pirates killing coast guards. At the same time the pro-US progressive party apologizes due to US-PI close-ties. China feels the need to "patrol" and protect what it considers its little brother while not killing anyone or start a war. The disputes over islands between China, Japan, Taiwan, PI and other SE countries are very complicated. There isn't one single baddie as you would like to imagine.

[openwheelracing]

Originally Posted by jamesdak

Wow..... you really, really need to do some research if this is truly what you think.

My friend, I live it and no I am not Chinese.

Anyway I am not interested in changing anyone's mind about China. Feel free to hate China all you want. All I am saying is the current sinophobia policies only benefit politicians, clicks and ratings.The long term damage is not worth it imo. I am a fiscal conservative therefore I strongly oppose tariffs. It is a protection mechanism between policy makers and lobbyists. Free trade is the best way forward. For example, how did that steel tariff work out between Trump/Biden era? Not very well. Nippon Steel benefits the most in the end. Tariff only works short term and only works for special brands like Harley Davidson but in that case it is still only short term.

One more thing. It is known that "China" generates more clicks. Just look at all your cycling social media. They will specifically say "China frame", "Chinese cheap tube"....etc and those videos generate most clicks. Talking about Pinarello frame made in China though, does not generate the same kind of revenue.

[nmrt]

No need for a link war. I could have sent links in other languages (I am trilingual) but as you said, it would be pointless. I do not blame you either as you bias shows as well.

Anyway, no need to argue. Happy riding.

Originally Posted by openwheelracing

We can have a link war if you like but it would be pointless. Plus you probably can't understand due to language barrier. You clearly consume one sided media. I don't blame you it is just the nature of our media at the moment. You only know half the story. Taiwan has been plagued with PI pirates killing coast guards. At the same time the pro-US progressive party apologizes due to US-PI close-ties. China feels the need to "patrol" and protect what it considers its little brother while not killing anyone or start a war. The disputes over islands between China, Japan, Taiwan, PI and other SE countries are very complicated. There isn't one single baddie as you would like to imagine.

[redir]

Originally Posted by openwheelracing

My friend, I live it and no I am not Chinese.

Anyway I am not interested in changing anyone's mind about China. Feel free to hate China all you want. All I am saying is the current sinophobia policies only benefit politicians, clicks and ratings.The long term damage is not worth it imo. I am a fiscal conservative therefore I strongly oppose tariffs. It is a protection mechanism between policy makers and lobbyists. Free trade is the best way forward. For example, how did that steel tariff work out between Trump/Biden era? Not very well. Nippon Steel benefits the most in the end. Tariff only works short term and only works for special brands like Harley Davidson but in that case it is still only short term.

One more thing. It is known that "China" generates more clicks. Just look at all your cycling social media. They will specifically say "China frame", "Chinese cheap tube"....etc and those videos generate most clicks. Talking about Pinarello frame made in China though, does not generate the same kind of revenue.

China is a big country with a lot of different people. There is a big difference between disliking the policies of the government of a nation and its people. The two are often very different. Lord knows we in the US know this all too well. Take the Uyghurs for example, or soon to be 'illegals' in our country. I'm sure not all Chinese people approve of the imprisonment, and worse, of the Uyghurs however the Government, which includes many people, do. And that is what good decent people around the world have issues with.

[jamesdak]

Originally Posted by openwheelracing

My friend, I live it and no I am not Chinese.

Ignorance is bliss for you and I'm actually a bit jealous.

[GonaSovereign]

Originally Posted by openwheelracing

-Expansionism? Huh? Again where are you getting your news from?

I suggest you spend a little bit of time reviewing the infrastructure investments in Southeast Asia, Africa, eastern Europe. I have done this; not relying on news sources of any kind.

[GonaSovereign]

Originally Posted by jamesdak

No need. it's all good.

This is social media, if I ever get offended by something on here then that's my problem. I was just amused by it all.

The excellent thing about this forum is that it is explicitly not social media. Social media uses algorithms to reinforce specific consumption behaviors. It's the perfect example of a digital slippery slope.

Topical interest UGC forums, at least the good ones, have a set of rules about how they can be used and they attract people who have a shared interest in a topic, but come from varied backgrounds. The structure of the forum ensures that sufficient level of respect and civility is maintained. Those who can't abide get kicked out. Those who are OK with an opposing opinion, can soundly present their own, and then return to their shared interest will find value and stick around.
So kudos to the people here. You're atypical in today's digital universe.

[openwheelracing]

Originally Posted by GonaSovereign

I suggest you spend a little bit of time reviewing the infrastructure investments in Southeast Asia, Africa, eastern Europe. I have done this; not relying on news sources of any kind.

Yes people who want ports get ports. Those who want buildings get buildings. The belt and road initiative is about trade, soft power and mutual benefits. We have very different views clearly on the same subject. I see no issues with China investing in other countries especially with friendly financing. Is China invading these countries with troops and demanding resources for free? Setting up military bases surrounding US? The answer is no. The Chinese mentality is peace and prosperity in that order. Follow the money, they will invest and trade wherever possible. It’s a free World right? Peru is very happy with the new port which should boost their GDP and trade tremendously in near future. What China is doing will benefit everyone. A more stable and prosperous South America is good for our national security. The list goes on.

Yes, there are some click baits out there with titles like “China invades Africa with migrants and taking local jobs”…etc. I read them with grain of salt and try to look at the whole picture.

[jamesdak]

Originally Posted by openwheelracing

Yes, there are some click baits out there with titles like “China invades Africa with migrants and taking local jobs”…etc. I read them with grain of salt and try to look at the whole picture.

https://www.ksl.com/article/51191132...ks-sources-say

[Fat Cat]

Originally Posted by openwheelracing

Yes people who want ports get ports. Those who want buildings get buildings. The belt and road initiative is about trade, soft power and mutual benefits. We have very different views clearly on the same subject. I see no issues with China investing in other countries especially with friendly financing. Is China invading these countries with troops and demanding resources for free? Setting up military bases surrounding US? The answer is no. The Chinese mentality is peace and prosperity in that order. Follow the money, they will invest and trade wherever possible. It’s a free World right? Peru is very happy with the new port which should boost their GDP and trade tremendously in near future. What China is doing will benefit everyone. A more stable and prosperous South America is good for our national security. The list goes on.

Yes, there are some click baits out there with titles like “China invades Africa with migrants and taking local jobs”…etc. I read them with grain of salt and try to look at the whole picture.

Is what you're taking prescription or recreational ?