OT: Electric Vehicles--anyone driving them or seriously looked at them?

[paredown]

Originally Posted by nickl

The main reason that the 500e was only sold in a few states was that FCA stated they lost money on every one sold. Of course without making a major commitment to EV production this was inevitable due to the economies of scale.

Agreed--but as that article was clear about was that their (and other established brands') sales in California had a multiplier effect in reducing their total fleet mileage to meet EPA standards--sell one car, get the equivalent improvement in your total MPG numbers as if you had sold six cars--truly crazy.

So only sell the cars where they would give you that multiplier effect, minimize your out of pocket losses and don't make a real commitment to EV production. But you had to take a hit because you needed to reduce your average gas mileage/production with EV credits.

Same for Chevy--it is a kind of corporate greenwashing made possible by stupid rules that favor established car companies over real EV producers like Tesla.

[Brian Smith]

Originally Posted by Brian Smith

What do you mean by "steps to add fast charging at home?"
For my family unit, and this isn't uncommon, our vehicles remain parked at home for longer periods than they remain parked anywhere else...why would home be the location that they would need extra preparation for EV charging? If you park overnight on your own property, you're in large part already prepared.
Additionally, battery storage is a feature that comes with the car, not something that one needs to add later in order to operate an EV.

Despite the topic of EV charging having a fair amount of currency, Bard seems to be profiting from trade within that currency more than they are spending currency.

Originally Posted by paredown

My typing outran my brain on that comment--I was thinking about the full solar package--so panels on the roof, battery storage and EV charging--trying to get off the grid as much as possible...

My aim, in responding to your post, as you were the original poster, was to attempt to provide any information that I could that is relevant to your needs. The thread seems to have a life of it's own, aside from whatever prompted you to post, but I'm not sure if you are getting what you want out of it. The "full solar package" is available for any type of vehicle, as the energy released by even the most polluting and inefficient combustion engine vehicle has come only from the sun, and beyond that, even the sources of pollutants ascribable to individual choices outside of transportation have, as their original source of energy, the sun. Very few people with solar PV systems are economically (or otherwise) "off the grid," so I'm uncertain what that comment is about. It is precisely the grid that has made most solar PV installations tenable. This is changing, but grid defection is (fortunately) still low.

Many people, including myself, have owned EVs and owned, contemporaneously, solar PV systems installed at a home that served as the primary charging location for the EV. These choices of solar PV and driving EVs are in no way reliant upon each other, and inquiries such as your original post occasionally seem to act as if they "need" to put them together. If anything, I would impress upon you (and others) the idea that they are not so reliant, and furthermore that the selection of an EV should in no manner be restricted by the idea of your home providing a handicapped source of voltaic pressure as being a detriment to employ for the purpose of charging the vehicle's battery system. With the choice of an EV, the owner swaps operating costs (fuel, maintenance, repairs) for a capital cost (higher equipment cost due chiefly to battery systems prices.) There is an elaborate enterprise established toward the aim of extending qualified candidates attractive finance rates for personal automobiles. If the products available satisfy your transportation needs, an EV rewards the fast follower adopter with a bargain and a generally improved operating experience, and the rest of us may experience the additional benefits of your choices.

[Hellgate]

Originally Posted by p nut

Although, if your ICE car runs out of gas, a quick call to AAA or a quick trip to the gas station, which is typically just a few miles to the next station, you're good to go. No need to tow the whole car (flatbed) to a charging station.

Swapping batteries out is the solution. The challenge is standardization and build out of an infrastructure to support this. Not unlike the gasoline system.

[p nut]

Originally Posted by Hellgate

Swapping batteries out is the solution. The challenge is standardization and build out of an infrastructure to support this. Not unlike the gasoline system.

Those battery packs weigh over 1k lbs.

[p nut]

Originally Posted by YesNdeed

Very true. But I remain optimistic that in the future AAA and possibly towing services alike (for a service fee) will have a means of supplementing a short range worth of charge for emergencies. If I'm out cell range and none of that is available, that would make for car pushing I'm not up for.

That’s an idea. Although what I imagine the future to be is tracks that recharge your car.

[sonicCows]

Tesla Cybertruck

[paredown]

Originally Posted by Brian Smith

My aim, in responding to your post, as you were the original poster, was to attempt to provide any information that I could that is relevant to your needs. The thread seems to have a life of it's own, aside from whatever prompted you to post, but I'm not sure if you are getting what you want out of it. The "full solar package" is available for any type of vehicle, as the energy released by even the most polluting and inefficient combustion engine vehicle has come only from the sun, and beyond that, even the sources of pollutants ascribable to individual choices outside of transportation have, as their original source of energy, the sun. Very few people with solar PV systems are economically (or otherwise) "off the grid," so I'm uncertain what that comment is about. It is precisely the grid that has made most solar PV installations tenable. This is changing, but grid defection is (fortunately) still low.

Many people, including myself, have owned EVs and owned, contemporaneously, solar PV systems installed at a home that served as the primary charging location for the EV. These choices of solar PV and driving EVs are in no way reliant upon each other, and inquiries such as your original post occasionally seem to act as if they "need" to put them together. If anything, I would impress upon you (and others) the idea that they are not so reliant, and furthermore that the selection of an EV should in no manner be restricted by the idea of your home providing a handicapped source of voltaic pressure as being a detriment to employ for the purpose of charging the vehicle's battery system. With the choice of an EV, the owner swaps operating costs (fuel, maintenance, repairs) for a capital cost (higher equipment cost due chiefly to battery systems prices.) There is an elaborate enterprise established toward the aim of extending qualified candidates attractive finance rates for personal automobiles. If the products available satisfy your transportation needs, an EV rewards the fast follower adopter with a bargain and a generally improved operating experience, and the rest of us may experience the additional benefits of your choices.

Thanks for the commentls--the question that included the 'full monty' of panels plus EV plus battery storage was inspired by the talk that I heard--and I understand that these are not necessarily tied goods.

Where we live though, our electricity cost /kw is among the highest in the nation, so charging an EV on the grid will be quite a bit more expensive than, say, Washington State where plentiful hydro-electric has traditionally kept power prices low. So the calculation of 'payback' here on an EV definitely gets more favorable if you can do solar panels. We also have the profit-making arm of Conn Ed as a energy company, and we have some of the worst incentives from the utility in the nation to switch to solar power, although the state incentives are quite good. Battery storage as the third leg of the stool seems not to have very large take up, although I have not had enough time to go down the battery rabbit hole, and about as much as I know is that Tesla (and a few others) are selling battery systems...

On the solar calculation--I did find the new(?) or at least new to me--Google solar calculator--Google Project Sunroof, that uses Google earth pictures of your house to see what size of system that you could put on your house, and gives a rough estimate of the power you could generate--anyone idly thinking about panels before the Federal tax credit drops at the end of this year should take a look--it is pretty cool for getting a rough idea:

https://www.google.com/get/sunroof

(In our case though we have removed one of the largest trees blocking our roof since the Google Earth photo was taken, so we would certainly need a field visit to get an accurate calculation.)

Anyways--I like the thread drift--you many not find out exactly what you want to know, but you find out about things that you probably wouldn't have otherwise! We are still seriously considering an inexpensive used EV for local driving. Solar panels will require roof replacement first, so that is a little farther out--if the numbers work, given our shady lot--and we may cut a few trees if we have to. We also looked at geothermal heat through the Google Alphabet company, Dandelion--but because it was a retrofit in an area with (for now) relatively low natural gas prices, it would have been a slower payback (and a larger investment) than we are currently willing to undertake.

But it is always interesting to dig into these topics--I was in the business (insulation manufacturer) when the first round of energy improvements were no-brainers (and panels were not yet truly viable)--so it is good to go back and see what has changed, and how much closer we are to the future that the hard core people imagined in the mid '70s.

[paredown]

Originally Posted by p nut

That’s an idea. Although what I imagine the future to be is tracks that recharge your car.

I always imagined something like this, but either linear induction motors (like the electric trains) that would kick in, or induction charging--no actual contact required.

[NHAero]

If folks are interested in getting some idea of what they could get from a solar electric array on a roof, this web site will be helpful:
https://pvwatts.nrel.gov/

You'll need to know which way your roof faces, and its pitch (angle) roughly, and its area. The input is in rated kW of panel output. A good rough guideline is to assume you can get 18W per sf of panel in peak sun, and it's good to assume that there will be at least 1 ft of space at each end of the array on your roof, and on top and bottom.

Say you have a roof that faces SW at 30 degrees angle (about a 7/12 pitch) and it is 12 ft up the roof, and 34 ft long. subtracting the 1 ft border all around, this is 10x32 = 320 sf. Times 18W/sf gives a 5,760W array (panels come in discrete sizes of course, this is only a scoping calc).

In PVWatts, I enter my zip code; the array size in kW (5.76); the roof angle and azimuth; and stick with the defaults. Where I live, it tells me the annual output would be 7,154 to 7,951 kWh/year - which is worth about $1,700/year, before any feed-in tariff or SRECs.

[C40_guy]

Originally Posted by NHAero

If folks are interested in getting some idea of what they could get from a solar electric array on a roof, this web site will be helpful:
https://pvwatts.nrel.gov/

Interesting. I ran the calcs on that site and it overestimated (actual) production on my system by about 15%...but perhaps I configured the parameters incorrectly. Not too far off...

[NHAero]

No question it is just the starting point. For one thing, it doesn't account for any shading. On my system it estimates 6,800 kWh/yr, which is also about 15% more than mine makes, but I have some tree shading.

Originally Posted by C40_guy

Interesting. I ran the calcs on that site and it overestimated (actual) production on my system by about 15%...but perhaps I configured the parameters incorrectly. Not too far off...

[benb]

Curious if those who live in expensive electricity areas can give an idea of monthly cost & how much you think charging an EV would add.

We have about 3k sq. feet including finished basement. We're in MA, or electricity bills are very inexpensive despite running Central Air off the electricity in the summer. House was built in 2006 and is pretty tight. (Anderson windows, well insulated, door sealed up, programmable thermostats, etc..) . We're pretty much 100% LED for lighting. One LCD TV, several computers. Gas stove. Electric clothes dryer.

We have options for buying electricity at various levels of green.. they are not particularly more expensive.

Our bills are so low it seems easier to try and buy from the greener suppliers than to do anything with Solar. We can't do solar easily anyway because we're in a duplex and would have to go in on it with the neighbors and our roof might not be the best. (We could maybe put panels on the detached garage.)

But I don't feel like adding an EV would make much of a change in our bills. I barely drive at all and my gas in the car is almost more than the whole households electrical bill. Our bill is so low I honestly don't even remember the approximate amount. The flipside is my gas for driving + maintenance on the car is probably too low to possibly make up for a loan on an EV.

Utility class solar has exploded around here.. you see it everywhere driving around now.. towns are stuffing panels into fields, along highways, etc.. like crazy.

[C40_guy]

@benb - I think you can justify spending $6K on a good commuting bike and leaving your (rarely-driven) car home even more.

Glad I could help.

[Brian Smith]

Originally Posted by paredown

Thanks for the commentls--the question that included the 'full monty' of panels plus EV plus battery storage was inspired by the talk that I heard--and I understand that these are not necessarily tied goods.

Where we live though, our electricity cost /kw is among the highest in the nation, so charging an EV on the grid will be quite a bit more expensive than, say, Washington State where plentiful hydro-electric has traditionally kept power prices low. So the calculation of 'payback' here on an EV definitely gets more favorable if you can do solar panels.

You know, you might investigate a bit further here. Fuel costs for a typical EV are so much lower than those for a petroleum-engined automobile that even your fuel costs at full residential retail electric utility rates are going to favor the EV. Furthermore, as a ConEd customer, you may happily become aware that you can qualify to enter a time-of-use rate agreement with them and pay 1.63 cents per kW-h for the EV charging. This can even be separately-metered such that you don't affect your house's AC-induced higher electricity prices during elevated time-of-use charges during peak summer demand.
This may apply to you.

The assortment of EVs out there can meet a lot of needs, but aren't for everyone. There is a lot of misinformation circulating about them. To summarize the specifics in your case, you don't need to change something about your house to fuel one, and your locality is very unlikely to result in you paying more for fuel than that for a combustion-engined vehicle.

[NHAero]

Benb -
My Hyundai Ioniq PHEV is getting about 4 miles/kWh. So at $0.22/kWh here on Martha's Vineyard, that works out to 5.5 cents/mile. If gasoline costs $2.50/gallon and the car in local traffic got 40 mpg, then the cost/mile is 6.3 cents.
We're driving about 6,000 miles/year on electricity, at a cost of about $27.50/month (if we paid for that juice and didn't have the solar)

Originally Posted by benb

Curious if those who live in expensive electricity areas can give an idea of monthly cost & how much you think charging an EV would add.

We have about 3k sq. feet including finished basement. We're in MA, or electricity bills are very inexpensive despite running Central Air off the electricity in the summer. House was built in 2006 and is pretty tight. (Anderson windows, well insulated, door sealed up, programmable thermostats, etc..) . We're pretty much 100% LED for lighting. One LCD TV, several computers. Gas stove. Electric clothes dryer.

We have options for buying electricity at various levels of green.. they are not particularly more expensive.

Our bills are so low it seems easier to try and buy from the greener suppliers than to do anything with Solar. We can't do solar easily anyway because we're in a duplex and would have to go in on it with the neighbors and our roof might not be the best. (We could maybe put panels on the detached garage.)

But I don't feel like adding an EV would make much of a change in our bills. I barely drive at all and my gas in the car is almost more than the whole households electrical bill. Our bill is so low I honestly don't even remember the approximate amount. The flipside is my gas for driving + maintenance on the car is probably too low to possibly make up for a loan on an EV.

Utility class solar has exploded around here.. you see it everywhere driving around now.. towns are stuffing panels into fields, along highways, etc.. like crazy.