OT: Electric Vehicles--anyone driving them or seriously looked at them?

[C40_guy]

Originally Posted by robt57

Marathon driving... Many a NJ to KY/TN and FLA straight thru early on. Not to mention motor cycle NJ to Old Quebec City and south for Blue grass parkway weekends etc.

...

Funny as I got older and afforded nicer more comfortable cars, I tolerate long trips less and less. ;O

Get me to the martini on time is my trip moniker anymore. Or was before I quit drinkin... Now get me to the hot shower. 400 mile limit/day I guess...

Same here. I drove from upstate NY to FLL as a college kid, 23 hours down, 22 hours back. Stopped every four hours to add oil to the car and check gas (tired old Volvo 145).

I was the only one who could drive a stick, and figured that if I had to I could teach one of the others in the car to get on the highway. (That alone would have woken me up!)

And now four hours is a solid drive for me. I do like to get out and stretch... Darn cars are easier to drive, are more comfortable, and in the case of my Q7, will go 10 hours without stopping for fuel (but I can't!).

[Ralph]

When we take long cross country trips these days, we try to make the trip itself as fun as the destination. So take out time, and 300-500 mile days fine with us. Not in a big hurry, and admittedly it helps being retired. There are lots of interesting things to see along the Interstate out in middle America if you slow down and look.

[C40_guy]

Originally Posted by Ralph

When we take long cross country trips these days, we try to make the trip itself as fun as the destination. So take out time, and 300-500 mile days fine with us. Not in a big hurry, and admittedly it helps being retired. There are lots of interesting things to see along the Interstate out in middle America if you slow down and look.

Wait a minute, Ralph, you already are at every one else's destination!

...and most of them are there this week, right?

[dgauthier]

Originally Posted by unterhausen

There have been multiple reports. An EVA charger frying a rivian got a lot of notice recently, but apparently some bolt owners have also had the same problem. The Rivian owner couldn't get the vehicle disconnected from the charger for some time. This is all a simple google search away.

I will admit the most common complaint about EVA is that a lot of their chargers don't work.

Electrify America was created as part of Volkswagen Automotive Group's settlement for Dieselgate:

https://media.electrifyamerica.com/en-us/releases/44

Towards the bottom of the page: "Electrify America was established as part of Volkswagen’s Court-approved settlement involving 2.0L TDI diesel vehicles in the United States. "

I'm not surprised Electrify America's chargers are problematic. These fossil fuel polluters have a vested interest in making EV charging difficult. The lying cheaters from VAG are continuing to be lying cheaters.

You can't trust these guys. Don't give them a penny. VAG should go out of business.

[saab2000]

I did just under 500 miles today. No problem. It’s definitely competitive with an ICE car for long days but it is also definitely behind. But it is not nearly as far off the pace as I thought it’d be. Stops are slightly longer but not massively longer unless one is a true road warrior and willing to pee in a bottle and eat in the car. I may or may not have done both of these things in the past. Both are currently verboten and the former permanently.

The 250 KW chargers are stunningly quick when the battery is at a low state of charge. Like 10% to 55% in 5-7 minutes. After that it slows but likely outpaces the bladders of most folks who try to stay hydrated. I walked over to a coffee shop to pee and grab a coffee and when I got back I was basically ready to go. This was in Birmingham this morning.

The car tells you when it’s time to go again to the next stop. Today’s longest leg was over 200 miles and it was a piece of cake for the vehicle. Nominally I get 330 miles on a full charge and this segment was probably close to that discharge rate. I had to stop for a sandwich and potty break and no charger was present, so it was a bit of a wasted stop, but it was quick; 12-15 minutes max.

I’d say even for road tripping Tesla is quite competitive with ICE cars and for local driving it’s clearly at an advantage. Road tripping takes more down time. Local driving, as Mr. Polyglot describes, it’s seconds per day and no more. So if time is money it may be something of a wash, depending on someone’s use case.

Tomorrow I should get home around lunchtime or a bit later. The gas car would be slightly quicker but not more than an hour, tops, based on my experiences thus far.

Finally, the warmer temps have done wonders for range and efficiency. Heading into cooler air again tomorrow so we’ll see what happens. Deep winter and road tripping is tougher than 70-80F.

[robt57]

Originally Posted by C40_guy

my Q7, will go 10 hours without stopping for fuel (but I can't!).

We used to have a boat toilet in the mini van with the dark tinted glass behind the front. And in the 90s a 9" TV with a VCR built into it. I knew all the Disney stuff verbatim until senility caught up.. Still dig the music, 30 year ear worms....

[72gmc]

Originally Posted by jimcav

I have hopes of converting my 64 avanti--undoubtedly I'll pay someone, but I'd love to see the process--if nothing else it will help me understand if what the charge (no pun intended) is reasonable.

https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/...=826089&page=8

I’ve linked the point in the thread where a standard truck restoration goes EV rogue. I see he’s up to 61 pages now. Tip for that forum: you can usually just click on an image linked in a post and you’ll see the image in a new browser window without having a forum login. So, you shouldn’t need to join the forum unless you want to.

[Louis]

Originally Posted by 72gmc

https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/...=826089&page=8

I’ve linked the point in the thread where a standard truck restoration goes EV rogue. I see he’s up to 61 pages now. Tip for that forum: you can usually just click on an image linked in a post and you’ll see the image in a new browser window without having a forum login. So, you shouldn’t need to join the forum unless you want to.

I looked around and skipped to the end, but wasn't able to figure out what finally happened - did he really electrify a running '71 GMC truck?

[Ralph]

Originally Posted by C40_guy

Wait a minute, Ralph, you already are at every one else's destination!

...and most of them are there this week, right?

Daytona was last weekend. 24 hours before that. I live about 35 miles from track. Big mess there, never go, but never miss a race on TV. Bike week starting soon. Harleys everywhere, not just around Daytona, but all around Orlando area. . Well behaved moneyed crowd in costume. Mostly professional folks who let their beards grow dressed up to look like bikers. They haul down their $30,000 Harley's in fancy vans with matching trailers wearing a $1000 worth of leathers. Some bring wives with same equipment. 100 grand minimum for both many times. Bikers are bigger spenders than auto racers....chamber of commerce says.

[72gmc]

Originally Posted by Louis

I looked around and skipped to the end, but wasn't able to figure out what finally happened - did he really electrify a running '71 GMC truck?

He appears to be mid-brew on his homebrew project. Rapid progress, then a hiatus, then rapid progress happens to quite a few builds on the old truck forum.

He linked a mirror thread on a DIY EV forum that has a lot of resources: https://www.diyelectriccar.com/threa...205625/page-36

[jimcav]

Originally Posted by 72gmc

https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/...=826089&page=8

I’ve linked the point in the thread where a standard truck restoration goes EV rogue. I see he’s up to 61 pages now. Tip for that forum: you can usually just click on an image linked in a post and you’ll see the image in a new browser window without having a forum login. So, you shouldn’t need to join the forum unless you want to.

appreciate this and the other one you linked

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by unterhausen

So far, it seems like EV's have very long warranties on the batteries, longer than most of us keep cars. I don't know if this tells you anything about battery replacement costs. I know the prices for Prius replacement batteries has come way down. If lithium cell capacity keeps up, this may also happen with EV batteries. India just found a lithium reserve, so people are out looking.

I stumbled upon a diy ev charger forum. There is a forum for everything, it seems. The commercial chargers are very simple inside. Scary simple, I think.
The volume they take up is probably needed to convince people they are worth the money. Those commercial chargers you see in public places are mostly empty. That's possibly why EV America chargers have been bricking cars.

Hadn't even considered that. I watch a YT channel about two air headed(but very YT$ successful) kids muck about with crashed/salvaged cars. Trying to make them whole again. They have a Tesla..they couldn't even get the doors open for a long time..Then they could but the 'puter' prevented them from doing just about everything. Never considered that plugging yer high tech, 'everything via a computer/internet' EV, and the thing gets killed in that Walmart parking lot in BFE, Alabama...

but I remain convinced that major innovations will happen, making EVs more efficient, more convenient, more affordable, and therefore more practicable. I suspect the same is not true, at least not to the same degree, for ICEs.

BUT, it seems the EV gig is plateauing somewhat due to the technology. Yes, more EVs being sold but they all have the same disadvantages in terms of range and charging times/locations. More locations will help but not much, other than small improvements, to the range and time to charge issues.

PLUS, as long as gas stations are plentiful, and oil is plentiful, and congress critters continue to be in the pocket of 'BigOil', I see small changes only.

I think there needs to be some sort of 'breakthrough' along the lines of lithium battery tech was when compared to previous battery designs.

THEN, range and charging times(convenience) and the $ will flow, as EVs are as efficient, convenient and affordable as an ICE...

BUT, just saw a commercial for a Nissan EV of some sort.."EV with a DIFFERENCE, 389 HP!'..not much about saving the planet..Performance is what sells EVs, these days it seems.

[paredown]

Originally Posted by 72gmc

A quick search showed $7-8.5k to replace the battery in an a3 etron, but no clear story on when that might need to happen. Do EVs come with battery replacement information?

One thing I remember--when the Prius first became a thing, this was a concern as well. Then the market provided--by the time people needed their batteries replaced, there was a thriving secondary market in used batteries--mainly from crashed Priuii--and secondary shops willing to install them. Tesla is already recycling usable batteries from cars into their battery walls (where the charge cycle is not as intense).

Like C40, I probably spend too much time reading about what kids are doing to their cars, but I have every confidence that by the time battery replacement really does become an issue, there will be rebuilding and replacement service. What I think of often were all the shops that replated chrome bumpers (we were often using them for plating other parts)--they were everywhere. Now you can't find them--mainly because we no longer put those on cars. (plus the environmental stuff). I'd love to know how long it took for that informal infrastructure to emerge!

And already there have been lessons learned--probably the worst Gen 1 vehicle for degradation was the Nissan Leaf--and part of the lesson there was that in the US, you need thermal management for the batteries because we have areas of extreme climate. Nissan has replaced a lot of first-gen batteries under warranty.

And this was probably the worst-case story-- similar generation Chevy Volts that did add thermal management (like Tesla) have not had similar problems.

As of right now, even if you had to pay a dealer for a new Leaf battery, you would be looking at Battery $5,499.00. Parts 290.40 Labor 375.00 Finance 100.00 under their new program. But there is already a company in Oregon that will do replacements with batteries salvaged from wrecks. Their current prices are about half, but they will also do custom upgrades with new larger battery packs in older cars. It's not a slam dunk--but less fatal than you would think. A company in New Zealand has promised a new replacement pack for LEAFs that includes thermal management for 2023--not sure if that is real or vaporware, and no prices announced (target price was 1/3 Nissan retail), but you get the idea. (There was also an announced deal for $6500 batteries by Nissan that seemed to be only a press release, but that may have been supply chain issues)

What Nissan had to do to overcome people's worries on their new vehicles is offer an 8 year/100,000 mile warranty on their new batteries (which has an expected life of at least 10 years).

[C40_guy]

Originally Posted by dgauthier

I'm not surprised Electrify America's chargers are problematic. These fossil fuel polluters have a vested interest in making EV charging difficult. The lying cheaters from VAG are continuing to be lying cheaters.

Most of the car manufacturers push the limit, and as they say in racing, it's only cheating if you get caught. VAG got caught. MB got caught at the same time and their story was lost in the background noise.

Case in point. Bosch was part of the Dieselgate scandal. Open a hood on any European car, and many others, and you'll see Bosch ignition components.

VAG is moving pretty quickly to electrify its fleet and has very interesting offerings from each of its brands. It absolutely has a vested interest in making EV charging easier and more accessible.

[Mr. Pink]

Originally Posted by paredown

One thing I remember--when the Prius first became a thing, this was a concern as well. Then the market provided--by the time people needed their batteries replaced, there was a thriving secondary market in used batteries--mainly from crashed Priuii--and secondary shops willing to install them. Tesla is already recycling usable batteries from cars into their battery walls (where the charge cycle is not as intense).

Like C40, I probably spend too much time reading about what kids are doing to their cars, but I have every confidence that by the time battery replacement really does become an issue, there will be rebuilding and replacement service. What I think of often were all the shops that replated chrome bumpers (we were often using them for plating other parts)--they were everywhere. Now you can't find them--mainly because we no longer put those on cars. (plus the environmental stuff). I'd love to know how long it took for that informal infrastructure to emerge!

And already there have been lessons learned--probably the worst Gen 1 vehicle for degradation was the Nissan Leaf--and part of the lesson there was that in the US, you need thermal management for the batteries because we have areas of extreme climate. Nissan has replaced a lot of first-gen batteries under warranty.

And this was probably the worst-case story-- similar generation Chevy Volts that did add thermal management (like Tesla) have not had similar problems.

As of right now, even if you had to pay a dealer for a new Leaf battery, you would be looking at Battery $5,499.00. Parts 290.40 Labor 375.00 Finance 100.00 under their new program. But there is already a company in Oregon that will do replacements with batteries salvaged from wrecks. Their current prices are about half, but they will also do custom upgrades with new larger battery packs in older cars. It's not a slam dunk--but less fatal than you would think. A company in New Zealand has promised a new replacement pack for LEAFs that includes thermal management for 2023--not sure if that is real or vaporware, and no prices announced (target price was 1/3 Nissan retail), but you get the idea. (There was also an announced deal for $6500 batteries by Nissan that seemed to be only a press release, but that may have been supply chain issues)

What Nissan had to do to overcome people's worries on their new vehicles is offer an 8 year/100,000 mile warranty on their new batteries (which has an expected life of at least 10 years).

Financing batteries. Ha. The banks have their fingers in everything.

Again, this may be ok with the top 25% or even less of Americans, but, think of what you're saying. The average working class schmoe (at least half of America) is not only going to see the purchase price of a vehicle that he or she desperately needs to survive in auto centric America rise by 50-100 %, but is going to be looking at a car or truck that has half the life of a decent well made vehicle, because it would be pretty dumb to put so much money into a hundred thousand mile car, so much that you have to finance it. I guess if you think that's ok, that's why nobody has any money saved.

Btw, I was test driving a small Hyundai SUV about four years ago, the gas powered version, and the salesman told me that the electric version of that thing has lifetime guaranteed batteries. Maybe they still do that. I said, huh. Interesting. Still didnt bite.