The Pro's Closet at it again

[November Dave]

Originally Posted by peanutgallery

I feel you, bro

Thanks, it's all why I got sane and we've scaled back dramatically. Rotor shims with the occasional wheel build is a very nice side business!

[AngryScientist]

Originally Posted by November Dave

Thanks, it's all why I got sane and we've scaled back dramatically. Rotor shims with the occasional wheel build is a very nice side business!

Very smart.

Some of those wheels you guys built out during the peak days of rim brake bespoke bikes were just so wonderful.

The good old days!

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by November Dave

Because it's a complete pain in the butt as a business, with low margins, no barrier to entry, precious few ways to differentiate no matter how good you are at it, it's labor intensive and physically demanding, no opportunities for scale, access to vendors is marginal, inventory costs are high relative to turns, Chinese wheel brands are doing an awfully good job of competing these days, and customer expectations for sales and service are poorly matched with revenue and margins.

A reasonable selection of hubs would be +/- 10 lines across +/- 7 brands. Among them you have at least 4 different freehub options, 6 bolt/Centerlock/rim, an average of about 6 colors, 4 front drillings and 3 rear drillings, several axle lengths, and different end caps. Keeping hubs in stock is impossible. Rims aren't much easier. Spokes are a little easier but not much - if you have a cutter/threader you can get away with a few hundred spokes each of 3 types in 2 colors in about 8 lengths. Only about $10k of spokes, but at least you should turn them with some regularity.

And your labor price is constantly compared to the customer's buddy who will screw it all up terribly in return for a 6 pack.

It's tough sledding.

Years ago, there was a very different model and paradigm in place regarding wheels. A few decades ago, rims and spokes, quite frankly, sucked. Mangled rims and broken spokes were just a fact of life that everyone had to deal with on a regular basis. A rider might go through multiple wheel rebuilds on the same set of hubs. So, a rider getting their wheels rebuilt by the local shop was common. Until the 1990s or so, a complete groupset would not only include shifters, derailleurs, cranks, BB (and possible also headset, seatpost and/or pedals), but it would also include a pair of hubs. The groupset purchaser would then have the local shop build up a pair of wheels on the hubs with the rims and spokes of their choice.

Fast forward to today, and wheels are much more reliable. Unless crashed, a set of rims and spokes may last nearly as long as the hubs, so rebuilding wheels is less common. So it usually makes more sense to buy complete wheels, then it does to have wheels built on demand. Also add to that the increase in wheel gimmickry (primarily driven by the need to differentiate wheels), which means that wheels often contain proprietary components, which can make rebuilding wheels less practical.

[November Dave]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

Very smart.

Some of those wheels you guys built out during the peak days of rim brake bespoke bikes were just so wonderful.

The good old days!

Thanks! I always had the thought of doing an Instagram post with a map showing all the places around the shop where I took product/Instagram photos. They're almost all within about a 1.5 block radius in Newport, but there were a few field trip locations.

Mark - I hear it. Back when I was first really getting into racing, Wednesday night of speed week was wheel truing night. Now Speedweek doesn't exist any more in that way, and people more or less justifiably expect to never have to true wheels. People would often ask me to build with some old rims for a classic look on an 11 speed hub and I'd be like "you know this is going to be terrible, right?" Mostly I'd say no thanks to those but wound up doing a few.

[rice rocket]

Originally Posted by prototoast

While they have closed, according to this article from Brain, they haven't declared bankruptcy. https://www.bicycleretailer.com/reta...eing-auctioned

I also haven't seen reports of creditors not being paid.

It seems quite plausible that they still have a potentially significant amount of cash on hand, but if they were losing money now and for the foreseeable future, it might have made sense to shut down quickly rather than continue losing money.

Homepage now says "stay tuned for more news...".

Did anyone score a deal at the liquidation sale? I'm scrolling through the top sellers and I don't see any screaming deals. Add the 18% buyers premium + 9% sales tax too.

Someone bought 400 Vittoria Zaffiro 700x23 tires for $2850 before fees.

[Baron Blubba]

Originally Posted by rice rocket

Someone bought 400 Vittoria Zaffiro 700x23 tires for $2850 before fees.

Probably an Amazon reseller.

[peanutgallery]

That is an awful lot of an awfully narrow 700x23 tire. Like a lifetime supply for the current marketof an entire continent. For not much more...a retailer can buy them when they need them. I'd be willing to bet that a large number of that lot wind up in a landfill within 10 years. A break even for the buyer if they're lucky

700x28...different story. The market has evolved quickly

Originally Posted by Baron Blubba

Probably an Amazon reseller.

[nmrt]

Ya know, you're on Paceline, right?
Folks are still running steel tubed bikes from 1970 with DT shifters and 21 mm tires. They'd line up for 23 mm Zaffiro's for $12 at Amazon.

Originally Posted by peanutgallery

That is an awful lot of an awfully narrow 700x23 tire. Like a lifetime supply for the current marketof an entire continent. For not much more...a retailer can buy them when they need them. I'd be willing to bet that a large number of that lot wind up in a landfill within 10 years. A break even for the buyer if they're lucky

700x28...different story. The market has evolved quickly

[peanutgallery]

The slightly oversized beads will be so close together on their 30 year old, 12mm wolber aero rims that it'll cause a multitude of flats...and a 15 page thread

Originally Posted by nmrt

Ya know, you're on Paceline, right?
Folks are still running steel tubed bikes from 1970 with DT shifters and 21 mm tires. They'd line up for 23 mm Zaffiro's for $12 at Amazon.

[Baron Blubba]

Originally Posted by peanutgallery

That is an awful lot of an awfully narrow 700x23 tire. Like a lifetime supply for the current marketof an entire continent. For not much more...a retailer can buy them when they need them. I'd be willing to bet that a large number of that lot wind up in a landfill within 10 years. A break even for the buyer if they're lucky

700x28...different story. The market has evolved quickly

Once the industry is done brainwashing us that wider is faster and we've all stockpiled 700x35 slick tires, they will provide new evidence that thinner is faster and sell us 700x23's all over again. When happens, this guy with his universe-lifetime supply of 700x23's will be laughing as he rides his 2009 Madone 6.9 all the way to the bank.

Also, as nmrt pointed out, in seriousness or facetiousness I can't tell, there are still a great deal of people running 700x23's, and a great deal of people who just want decent rubber cheap. I know this because several times a year we tune bikes that need new tires, and the customer insists on the cheapest option available ($20ish), even if we tell them that by spending $50 per tire their bike will feel like a completely different, totally wonderful machine. Nope, $20 tops, and if we have something used that's even better.

Oh, and don't replace the tubes --they'll patch them at home later. But I'm digressing, unless someone bought 8000 Park Tool patch kits for .50 a piece at this Pro's Closet sale.

[prototoast]

What does it say about The Pro's Closet that they had 400 Zaffiro tires? Was this left over from a decade ago when 24 was the norm and they need to outfit bikes with new tires? Or did they buy these as surplus and hope to sell them?

Maybe for a while they were operating at such a scale that this was just a normal amount for them to stock for, but it also seems like maybe this was itself a symptom of their struggles.

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by prototoast

What does it say about The Pro's Closet that they had 400 Zaffiro tires? Was this left over from a decade ago when 24 was the norm and they need to outfit bikes with new tires? Or did they buy these as surplus and hope to sell them?

Maybe for a while they were operating at such a scale that this was just a normal amount for them to stock for, but it also seems like maybe this was itself a symptom of their struggles.

I'm guessing they got a ton of stuff as a liquidator of other businesses messes and messups. I highly doubt they bought those 23s out of a QBP catalog..

[AngryScientist]

Originally Posted by prototoast

What does it say about The Pro's Closet that they had 400 Zaffiro tires? .

I think it just speaks to the business model they had. If TPC had the opportunity to buy bulk inventory for pennies on the dollar, they probably did. When you buy bulk inventory, you may get a lot of good valuable stuff, along with less desirable stuff, like inexpensive tires.

I know in the past I have purchased consumables from TPC when they had the lowest price by far on items I was shopping for, presumably because of the above practice.

In any event, i'm not at all surprised that their webpage says "stay tuned" - the name and IP was too valuable to just go away entirely.

[peanutgallery]

I would hardly consider someone shopping for used tires to be a "customer" Be careful inhaling all that glue

Kidding aside. The number of 2000-2012 vintage road bikes (with 23s) that were basically abandoned at our local bike swap after not selling for $250 was astonishing. 2 were carbon ridleys with campy. Lots of aluminum 105. About a dozen were loaded on a trailer and taken to a local church that has bicycle recycling ministry. It was odd

Originally Posted by Baron Blubba

Once the industry is done brainwashing us that wider is faster and we've all stockpiled 700x35 slick tires, they will provide new evidence that thinner is faster and sell us 700x23's all over again. When happens, this guy with his universe-lifetime supply of 700x23's will be laughing as he rides his 2009 Madone 6.9 all the way to the bank.

Also, as nmrt pointed out, in seriousness or facetiousness I can't tell, there are still a great deal of people running 700x23's, and a great deal of people who just want decent rubber cheap. I know this because several times a year we tune bikes that need new tires, and the customer insists on the cheapest option available ($20ish), even if we tell them that by spending $50 per tire their bike will feel like a completely different, totally wonderful machine. Nope, $20 tops, and if we have something used that's even better.

Oh, and don't replace the tubes --they'll patch them at home later. But I'm digressing, unless someone bought 8000 Park Tool patch kits for .50 a piece at this Pro's Closet sale.

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

I think it just speaks to the business model they had. If TPC had the opportunity to buy bulk inventory for pennies on the dollar, they probably did. When you buy bulk inventory, you may get a lot of good valuable stuff, along with less desirable stuff, like inexpensive tires.

I know in the past I have purchased consumables from TPC when they had the lowest price by far on items I was shopping for, presumably because of the above practice.

In any event, i'm not at all surprised that their webpage says "stay tuned" - the name and IP was too valuable to just go away entirely.

Well now I'm imagining that the 400 Zaffiro tires are a cursed bounty, passing from seller to seller, each one going out of business, the next one thinking they've scored a deal that they can flip for a profit.