OT: Ray, how's your Bitcoin investment going?

[rice rocket]

Originally Posted by redir

BTC is on the rise again, and without getting political, because of the situation with Russia and Ukraine. It's interesting on a lot of levels but one is that it is rising because it is showing itself to be of it's original design, a digital currency.

Ukraine has opened up to cryptocurrencies and there are aid organizations accepting BTC, ETH and other digital currencies to help on the ground. I can send BTC to my family and friends in Ukraine in seconds, no bank transfers, no middle man, no fees. Just a transfer of currency from my wallet to theirs.

It's really a beautiful thing.

As a result for investors, the price is rising once again. It will be interesting to see if more people realize the utility of cryptocurrencies after this.

By seconds, do you mean a few days?

There's a reason bitcoin isn't scalable, and that is a major reason.

[rice rocket]

Btw, this is a good explanation on the origins of crypto and NFTs, and its motivations.

It's two hours long, but it's very thorough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ_xWvX1n9g


Cliff notes, it's like MLM, but for dudes in mom's basement. And many of the high dollar NFT sales have been traced back to....wait for it...the sellers themselves, it's just a huge ponzi scheme to try to force the existence of crypto. But hey, no rules, right?

[echappist]

Originally Posted by redir

BTC is on the rise again, and without getting political, because of the situation with Russia and Ukraine. It's interesting on a lot of levels but one is that it is rising because it is showing itself to be of it's original design, a digital currency.

Ukraine has opened up to cryptocurrencies and there are aid organizations accepting BTC, ETH and other digital currencies to help on the ground. I can send BTC to my family and friends in Ukraine in seconds, no bank transfers, no middle man, no fees. Just a transfer of currency from my wallet to theirs.

It's really a beautiful thing.

As a result for investors, the price is rising once again. It will be interesting to see if more people realize the utility of cryptocurrencies after this.

Isn't there an elephant (or rather, bear) in the room, which would account for the rise in BTC? After all, it's well established that BTC are quite useful in regions where currency experiences devaluation, and one currency basically is at ~70% its former value from a week ago.

[thegunner]

Originally Posted by rice rocket

By seconds, do you mean a few days?

I think you're harming your (totally valid perspective) by exaggerating this -- most transactions take a few hours to get 3x confirmations. I'm not a huge fan of the infrastructure that powers the entire thing, and the performance downright sucks, but it's not that slow.

[redir]

Ah yes BTC does take 3 confirmations but I sent CATS and it was literally seconds.

As for oligarchs they have to come to the surface and cash out eventually. That's how they caught those two in New York a month or so back.

Fact of the matter is there are warehouses full of USD cash in narco Mexico and Columbia. Good old cash has been used by criminals far more then BTC.

[redir]

Originally Posted by rice rocket

Btw, this is a good explanation on the origins of crypto and NFTs, and its motivations.

It's two hours long, but it's very thorough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ_xWvX1n9g


Cliff notes, it's like MLM, but for dudes in mom's basement. And many of the high dollar NFT sales have been traced back to....wait for it...the sellers themselves, it's just a huge ponzi scheme to try to force the existence of crypto. But hey, no rules, right?

Crime in the art world? Say it isn't so...

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by redir

BTC is on the rise again, and without getting political, because of the situation with Russia and Ukraine. It's interesting on a lot of levels but one is that it is rising because it is showing itself to be of it's original design, a digital currency.

Ukraine has opened up to cryptocurrencies and there are aid organizations accepting BTC, ETH and other digital currencies to help on the ground. I can send BTC to my family and friends in Ukraine in seconds, no bank transfers, no middle man, no fees. Just a transfer of currency from my wallet to theirs.

It's really a beautiful thing.

As a result for investors, the price is rising once again. It will be interesting to see if more people realize the utility of cryptocurrencies after this.

How much is the price rising because of increased demand for use in transactions by people in Russia and Ukraine, and how much is the price rising because speculators are anticipating increased demand for use in transactions by people in Russia and Ukraine?

[flying]

My 2cents is Russia will "Continue" to stock up on gold when ever possible

A crypto may sound nice as an alternate currency but that is all it ever will be another "Currency"

Gold & Silver as always are "Money"

Imagine a War....real war not some skirmish....how useful / accessible will any digital currency or even bank accounts be?

[redir]

Originally Posted by prototoast

How much is the price rising because of increased demand for use in transactions by people in Russia and Ukraine, and how much is the price rising because speculators are anticipating increased demand for use in transactions by people in Russia and Ukraine?

I would question, relatively speaking as pertains to how assets rise and fall in value, does that really matter?

Originally Posted by flying

My 2cents is Russia will "Continue" to stock up on gold when ever possible

A crypto may sound nice as an alternate currency but that is all it ever will be another "Currency"

Gold & Silver as always are "Money"

Imagine a War....real war not some skirmish....how useful / accessible will any digital currency or even bank accounts be?

If you have your crypto in a hard wallet in a fire proof safe then if the Internet is ever rebuilt you still have it. But yeah a real nuclear war will take it all out and most of us with it. But in that situation I'm not sure how valuable gold will be either.

[thegunner]

Originally Posted by flying

Imagine a War....real war not some skirmish....how useful / accessible will any digital currency or even bank accounts be?

that's trivializing things a bit for the people in ukraine isn't it?

also, how useful are gold ingots in the event of war?

[redir]

Crypto Donations To Ukraine Top $52 Million As Funds Pour In From Bitcoin, Ether, PolkaDot And NFTs

The Ukraine government and organizations supporting its fight against a Russia invasion have amassed more than $52 million in cryptocurrency donations—and already deployed at least $14 million—amid an influx of support as the country starts accepting a wider array of tokens and digital assets, including proceeds from the sale of one of the most expensive non-fungible tokens in history.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jonatha...adot-and-nfts/

[flying]

Originally Posted by thegunner

that's trivializing things a bit for the people in ukraine isn't it?

also, how useful are gold ingots in the event of war?

Sorry did not mean to trivialize any form of aggression

But honestly IMO this is not even as bad as when the USA & France swarmed Libya, or droned Afghanistan weddings & village meetings or fell Iraq all in undeclared war fashion etc etc...
but those things seem to have been condoned by msm...But again...for myself...It is ALL TERRIBLE period........That aside

As for how useful gold ingots are? Not very except large purchases but...as always small/light gold/silver will as always be VERY useful as Money
Just as it has been for thousands of years...That is a pretty good track record

Look at Venezuela for example now & other countries during collapse of any currency
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...meals-haircuts

Anyway sorry did not mean to divert the bitcoin discussion & will leave it at that.

[verticaldoug]

I think the Russians are using Bitcoin to try to shield their money and evade sanctions. It is only a matter of time before US/EU crack down on the crypto exchanges. The idiot from Binance was on Bloomberg yesterday saying they weren't banning Russians....

At some point, the West will shutdown the money laundering...

[flying]

Originally Posted by verticaldoug

I think the Russians are using Bitcoin to try to shield their money and evade sanctions. It is only a matter of time before US/EU crack down on the crypto exchanges. The idiot from Binance was on Bloomberg yesterday saying they weren't banning Russians....

At some point, the West will shutdown the money laundering...

Actually when they (USA) say "sanctions" they never tell the whole story as they still buy xxxxxx barrels of oil a day from Russia even now

Same for Europe who actually gets much of their gas from Russia

The 27-country EU imports 90% of the gas it uses, with around 40% coming from Russia.

[verticaldoug]

Originally Posted by flying

Actually when they (USA) say "sanctions" they never tell the whole story as they still buy xxxxxx barrels of oil a day from Russia even now

Same for Europe who actually gets much of their gas from Russia

Prior to the invasion, the US imported 200,000 b of crude and500,000 of various refined products. Marathon and Valero are the largest importers. Many traders are already suspending purchasing from Russia, and the tankers enroute to the US were all pre-ukraine. You will slowly see this ratchet up.

Obviously, Europe is slow to move on energy because of their dependence, but you are seeing a shift. You can't move the mountain over night. BP is selling their stake in Rosneft and next monday, both Rosneft and Gasprom have large international bonds maturing. If they don't pay, the default clock starts ticking.