Is Pogacar the real deal or is it all sus?

[Hilltopwalters]

good grief, this thread.

Pogi gambled in the WC race, his competitors took their time sniffing each other's butts and then Pogi did Pogi things. It did get a little close once it got around 20(ish)kms but he rallied and won.

The fact that everyone here pretty much slobs on Merckx and then will just trash talk what is essentially an even better version of him is hilarious. The kind of "old men yell at clouds" mentality that this lot gets made fun for having is on full display.

Is he doping? Idk. Is he gifted with freak genetics? Yeah. But to be in that percentile of World Tour riders in general you need to have freak genetics, he's just the king of the freaks. You don't like it, don't watch it. You don't like people posting about it, don't comment. How hard can that possibly be?

[ldamelio]

Originally Posted by bthomas515

This might be controversial, but I think we should just allow PED’s in sports and see how fast people can go

Simplistic. A lot of young, gullible athletes would be loaded up on stuff that would have them in their graves by the time they were 40. The racing we watch would be 5 - 10% faster but I don't see how that would make it any more appealing as a spectator sport. A bike going 25 kph up hill isn't that much more exciting than one going 20 kph. And for this you're suggesting we load young athletes up on stuff that will give them heart disease, cancer and all other manner of maladies? NFW.

I admit it's a morass knowing what should be legal and what shouldn't (not to mention the difficulties of enforcement) but a free for all would be crazy. You'd see 20 year olds with hematocrits of 65 dying in their sleep from erythropoietic drugs or dying of liver cancer in their 40's from anabolics. And still only the most genetically gifted would be at the top to monetize their sacrifice. The rest would die young and anonymous all for the noble cause of being pack filler.

[Alistair]

Originally Posted by ldamelio

Simplistic. A lot of young, gullible athletes would be loaded up on stuff that would have them in their graves by the time they were 40.

Yep, I'm more concerned about athlete health than fair competition.

Fair competition is impossible unless we're racing clones and leave results up to luck. Otherwise, genetics plays a role (ultimate ability). As does birth location and parents (early childhood opportunity). And just general luck.

But unlimited doping will absolutely lead to athletes taking unhealthy combinations/doses of chemicals.

[GregL]

Originally Posted by Hilltopwalters

good grief, this thread.

Pogi gambled in the WC race, his competitors took their time sniffing each other's butts and then Pogi did Pogi things. It did get a little close once it got around 20(ish)kms but he rallied and won.

The fact that everyone here pretty much slobs on Merckx and then will just trash talk what is essentially an even better version of him is hilarious. The kind of "old men yell at clouds" mentality that this lot gets made fun for having is on full display.

Is he doping? Idk. Is he gifted with freak genetics? Yeah. But to be in that percentile of World Tour riders in general you need to have freak genetics, he's just the king of the freaks. You don't like it, don't watch it. You don't like people posting about it, don't comment. How hard can that possibly be?

^^^^Plus 1^^^^

Greg

[edward12]

Cycling is a beautiful sport and, for those old enough "to yell at the clouds," it has given us many heroes until EPO and other PEDS became prevalent. Cycling fans have every right to demand a sport and performances which are clean to the greatest extent possible. Accepting the current status quo is just apologizing for cheating - and that is not sport. In fact, it's pathetic. I understand that Anquetil and Merckx (and other great riders from the pre-doping era) relied on more than mineral water to compete and win. But that was absolutely nothing like it is now with modern doping protocols relative to banned substances. Even the use on non-banned substances is getting ridiculously close to cheating. Pog and others will be found out soon enough. Perhaps it's time to demand more from the sport as well as the sponsors before it becomes more of a cartoon than it already is.

[GregL]

I don't like cheating. I don't condone cheating. I don't rationalize or support cheating. All that being said, cheating has been part of competition since the dawn of human existence. Sanctioning bodies and officials are in place to prevent cheating and provide disciplinary action for those who cheat. Some sanctioning bodies are better than others.

Pro cycling is competition for the sake of entertainment. Enjoy the spectacle with the understanding that some competitors cheat. Hopefully they are caught and disciplined. As they said in a great cycling film (Breaking Away):

Dave: Everybody cheats. I just didn't know.
Dad: Well, now you know.

Greg

[KonaSS]

Man - you are just proving the point. This is so full of contradictions it isn't even funny.

Originally Posted by edward12

Accepting the current status quo is just apologizing for cheating - and that is not sport. In fact, it's pathetic.

Please define the "current status quo." You must know something that the rest of us don't. I don't know what I don't know but I do believe that today's testing and monitoring is better than it has ever been.

Originally Posted by edward12

I understand that Anquetil and Merckx (and other great riders from the pre-doping era) relied on more than mineral water to compete and win. But that was absolutely nothing like it is now with modern doping protocols relative to banned substances.

When is the pre-doping era? Good luck defining that. Then you excuse your hero's way of cheating. As long as they are great riders, who cares if Merckx failed doping tests? So your hero's way of cheating was more acceptable form of cheating? What kind of cheating is ok, and when does it cross the line to become "not sport?"

In short, this is some non-sensical yelling at clouds.

[fourflys]

Originally Posted by Hilltopwalters

good grief, this thread.

Pogi gambled in the WC race, his competitors took their time sniffing each other's butts and then Pogi did Pogi things. It did get a little close once it got around 20(ish)kms but he rallied and won.

The fact that everyone here pretty much slobs on Merckx and then will just trash talk what is essentially an even better version of him is hilarious. The kind of "old men yell at clouds" mentality that this lot gets made fun for having is on full display.

Is he doping? Idk. Is he gifted with freak genetics? Yeah. But to be in that percentile of World Tour riders in general you need to have freak genetics, he's just the king of the freaks. You don't like it, don't watch it. You don't like people posting about it, don't comment. How hard can that possibly be?

^^ This!!

[fourflys]

Originally Posted by KonaSS

Man - you are just proving the point. This is so full of contradictions it isn't even funny.



Please define the "current status quo." You must know something that the rest of us don't. I don't know what I don't know but I do believe that today's testing and monitoring is better than it has ever been.



When is the pre-doping era? Good luck defining that. Then you excuse your hero's way of cheating. As long as they are great riders, who cares if Merckx failed doping tests? So your hero's way of cheating was more acceptable form of cheating? What kind of cheating is ok, and when does it cross the line to become "not sport?"

In short, this is some non-sensical yelling at clouds.

^^ and this!!

[br0qn]

spoiler alert





anyone watch emilia?

he looked effortless when he dropped the favorites on the first pass on San Marco. the gap balloons to 40 seconds in a handful of kilometers and even matt stephens and rob hatch (eurosport commentators) sounded defeated, wind stripped completely out of their sails.

one of them brought to light that 20 of the 30 UAE riders have won a race this season and tadej himself has won more races this season than bora as a team.

you'd be silly to bet against him for varese or lombardia next week

[dmitrik4]

Originally Posted by edward12

I understand that Anquetil and Merckx (and other great riders from the pre-doping era) relied on more than mineral water to compete and win.

Sure, Jan.

I can promise you all of those guys were getting whatever advantages they could, just like every kind of racer ever.

Originally Posted by Hilltopwalters

good grief, this thread.

Pogi gambled in the WC race, his competitors took their time sniffing each other's butts and then Pogi did Pogi things. It did get a little close once it got around 20(ish)kms but he rallied and won.

The fact that everyone here pretty much slobs on Merckx and then will just trash talk what is essentially an even better version of him is hilarious. The kind of "old men yell at clouds" mentality that this lot gets made fun for having is on full display.

Is he doping? Idk. Is he gifted with freak genetics? Yeah. But to be in that percentile of World Tour riders in general you need to have freak genetics, he's just the king of the freaks. You don't like it, don't watch it. You don't like people posting about it, don't comment. How hard can that possibly be?

100% cosign, no notes

[earlfoss]

Sus. Look back at the dominant heroes from the past 30 years. Poj tracks.

Counter argument... but this time it's different...

[unterhausen]

Originally Posted by ldamelio

Simplistic. A lot of young, gullible athletes would be loaded up on stuff that would have them in their graves by the time they were 40.

We tend to forget that they didn't really crack down on EPO and blood doping until there were too many riders dying in their sleep. I'm sure they are cheating nowadays, but they have to hide it much better and can't just take a big syringe full of goop every day.

[trener1]

Originally Posted by edward12

Cycling is a beautiful sport and, for those old enough "to yell at the clouds," it has given us many heroes until EPO and other PEDS became prevalent. Cycling fans have every right to demand a sport and performances which are clean to the greatest extent possible. Accepting the current status quo is just apologizing for cheating - and that is not sport. In fact, it's pathetic. I understand that Anquetil and Merckx (and other great riders from the pre-doping era) relied on more than mineral water to compete and win. But that was absolutely nothing like it is now with modern doping protocols relative to banned substances. Even the use on non-banned substances is getting ridiculously close to cheating. Pog and others will be found out soon enough. Perhaps it's time to demand more from the sport as well as the sponsors before it becomes more of a cartoon than it already is.

You do know that Mercx failed a doping test, I mean you do know?

[trener1]

Originally Posted by Hilltopwalters

good grief, this thread.

Pogi gambled in the WC race, his competitors took their time sniffing each other's butts and then Pogi did Pogi things. It did get a little close once it got around 20(ish)kms but he rallied and won.

The fact that everyone here pretty much slobs on Merckx and then will just trash talk what is essentially an even better version of him is hilarious. The kind of "old men yell at clouds" mentality that this lot gets made fun for having is on full display.

Is he doping? Idk. Is he gifted with freak genetics? Yeah. But to be in that percentile of World Tour riders in general you need to have freak genetics, he's just the king of the freaks. You don't like it, don't watch it. You don't like people posting about it, don't comment. How hard can that possibly be?

^^^^ times 3