OT: sportwagen

[palincss]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

EV or EV/Hybrid SportWagen? No such animal and VW has no plans to make another wagen.

Actually, they still make them in Germany, they just don't sell them in North America. They have wagon ("Variant") versions of the Golf and Passat, a shooting brake version of the Arteon and the ID.7 Tourer listed on https://www.volkswagen.de/de/modelle.html There's even a Golf R Variant. https://www.volkswagen.de/de/modelle...r-variant.html But, sadly, zero chance of getting one here -- at least, not for another 25 years.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by .RJ

Are there any wagons left for America? I dont really count the S6 Avant or M5 in this, given the price/performance and there's no way that I would treat it like, well, a family car.

Not really. A Subaru Outback is getting close but much smaller trunk/space behind back seats. The Taos and Tiguan are getting more 'squat' and closer in height to the Golf/Jetta SW but not really.

BMW and Volvo I think do but BIG BUX..

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by .RJ

I've found modern VW/Audi to be very reliable, FWIW.

Introducing a lot of new tech (safety features, screens, etc) plus supply chain problems the past few years has hit pretty much all the car manufacturers with some issues.

Anecdotal only but my 2014 JSW/diesel and my now 2017 GSW, 4 Motion has been VERY reliable...95K...knock on wood..

[martl]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Not really. A Subaru Outback is getting close but much smaller trunk/space behind back seats.

Are you comparing the Outback to the 5 series touring and the A6 Avant?

Volume behind back seats/with back row folded
5 Series 570l / 1700l
A6 Avant 565l/ 1680l
Outback: 560l/1820l

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by martl

Are you comparing the Outback to the 5 series touring and the A6 Avant?

Volume behind back seats/with back row folded
5 Series 570l / 1700l
A6 Avant 565l/ 1680l
Outback: 560l/1820l

And the Alltrack/Golf Wagon crushes all those numbers for a lot less money.

[Likes2ridefar]

Originally Posted by .RJ

And the Alltrack/Golf Wagon crushes all those numbers for a lot less money.

The outback has more cargo capacity, more room inside for passengers, and higher ground clearance. I wish there were more wagon choices…

[thwart]

Originally Posted by .RJ

And the Alltrack/Golf Wagon crushes all those numbers for a lot less money.

This. We’ve traveled with a lot of luggage, food supplies and 2 full size bikes in the back (and still with the load low enough to be able to use the rear view mirror…)

Although my wife’s Prius V can still do slightly better as it’s quite a bit taller.

But even the manual trans hater admits the VW is a better travel car… quieter, better seats, etc. And sometimes even better gas mileage.

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by Likes2ridefar

The outback has more cargo capacity, more room inside for passengers, and higher ground clearance. I wish there were more wagon choices…

The numbers that martl arent accurate then.

Looks like the outback does have ~15% more cargo volume.

[AngryScientist]

Wagons are such amateur utility vehicles.

[Likes2ridefar]

If it was reasonable to lift a minivan I think I’d be driving one! Need more ground clearance in AZ to not shy from the dirt roads.

[AngryScientist]

Originally Posted by Likes2ridefar

If it was reasonable to lift a minivan I think I’d be driving one! Need more ground clearance in AZ to not shy from the dirt roads.

Not sure what kind of dirt roads you're on, but this thing has been all over the Northeast, including many, many miles of VT and Upstate NY dirt roads. Ground clearance not a problem.

[benb]

The only problem with Minivans is they are way too freaking expensive.. you really, really have to need the extra room.

I looked at the Odyssey when I bought my Outback. A used Odyssey was still $10,000+ more expensive than a brand new Outback, and I was comparing a top of the line Outback to a more base level Odyssey, and lots of the Odysseys on the dealer lots here had really trashed interiors from parents who let their kids eat/puke/whatever in the back and never really cleaned it up. The state of the interiors was absolutely shocking on vehicles that were priced $40k+ at the time. Most of the shock I suppose was that they had managed to have their interiors damaged to the point the detailers couldn't clean it!

It's a Honda so of course once you have it and paid for it the vehicle is going to be awesome, be more fun to drive than it should, last forever, and somehow beat it's MPG #s. Not knocking them just you gotta decide you're OK with spending a ton of money on a vehicle that makes you look uncool.

I never really looked at the Sportwagen pricing but I'm assuming they were more affordable.

I would also agree with the idea though that almost nobody needs the offroad capabilities of an Outback or Forester. You are either a full on offroad enthusiast and you need something better than a Subaru, or you really don't even need what the Subaru has.

[bmeryman]

Originally Posted by Likes2ridefar

If it was reasonable to lift a minivan I think I’d be driving one! Need more ground clearance in AZ to not shy from the dirt roads.

Visit Journeys Off Road for all your minivan lifting needs! My Sienna's been fine on everything here in VT, but if I were out west with BLM land nearby I'd certainly consider a lift. There's a couple lifted Siennas around here in VT.

Your options are even more exciting if you go full size van - solid axle swap!!

And to keep my post on topic: I have really wanted a TDI Sportwagen for a long time. There's one for sale locally here that I went to test drive. It was wonderful to drive and a manual, which would be my preference, but not enough room for two large rear facing car seats and comfortable driver/passenger up front. I was pretty surprised about that. Oh well, I'll stick with the Sienna and its terrible fuel economy until it succumbs to rust.

[Likes2ridefar]

Originally Posted by benb

I would also agree with the idea though that almost nobody needs the offroad capabilities of an Outback or Forester. You are either a full on offroad enthusiast and you need something better than a Subaru, or you really don't even need what the Subaru has.

Just come live on the west coast and it’ll make more sense. There are many opportunities to go off paved paths that a regular car will usually suffice but it adds risk, can be incredibly jarring, and in some cases it simply can’t go where we’d like to go. I caused significant damage to our accord two times trying to go where it shouldn’t. Having light duty all terrain tires (falken wildpeak at trail in our case) and higher ground clearance with AWD makes these locations much more accessible. We specifically got the outback for this duty and have been very happy with it. I was expecting to not like it but deal with it since it was the most effective tool for the job. I opted to not go wilderness and instead turn the outback touring xt into what we need to be for the wilderness.

It is otherwise a good daily driver for the SO. Not the case for true off road vehicles.

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

Wagons are such amateur utility vehicles.

The few times I've rented a van I feel like I'm driving a bus. I dont think I could get used to it.

Sometimes I look at things that might be a bit more, i dunno, luxury and then I remember my VW is paid for and does 95% of anything I'll ever want to do with a car.