OT: sportwagen

[charliedid]

MT love affair is the step brother to "rim brake" continent of bicycles...

[thwart]

Originally Posted by charliedid

mt love affair is the step brother to "rim brake" contingent of bicycles...

There… FIFY.

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by thwart

There… FIFY.

Ha ...right you are.

[avalonracing]

Originally Posted by palincss

Spend a little time driving in Metro DC, that'll cure you of your MT addiction.

Ha, I do! Notice my home location is Baltimore and I grew up in Silver Spring. DC traffic is where I learned to drive a manual. It keeps me awake in traffic. Another benefit noticed... I had an auto for some years and when I went back to a MT I found that I didn't want to check my phone at every stoplight or when traffic is crawling. Maybe if everyone had a manual people would stop looking at their phones on the road.

[echappist]

In the past, MTs were 1) cheaper, 2) more fuel efficient, and 3) more prompt in shifting compared to ATs. All three advantages were tangible; yet all three are either no longer true or have been drastically reduced by advances to modern ATs.

The only remaining intentional advantage of note is the conferral of a sense of control; and the only non-intentional advantage is MT being a theft-deterrent.

Which is not to say I wouldn't want to drive a manual wagon, but rather that there aren't many practical justifications left.

At least rim-brake set-ups remain cheaper and easier to maintain compared to their disc-brake counterparts.

Similar comparisons are valid for a whole slew of manually-controlled devices such as cameras (where semi-auto provides really good results) and espresso machines (where semi-auto removes a lot of the inconsistencies of lever machines). The preferences for respective manual control come down to nostalgia and wanting to control as many aspects as possible.

[thwart]

Originally Posted by echappist

In the past, MTs were 1) cheaper, 2) more fuel efficient, and 3) more prompt in shifting compared to ATs. All three advantages are either no longer true or have been drastically reduced.

The only remaining intentional advantage of note is the conferral of a sense of control; and the only non-intentional advantage is MT being a theft-deterrent.

Which is not to say I wouldn't want to drive a manual wagon, but rather that there aren't many practical justifications left.

At least rim-brake set-ups remain cheaper and easier to maintain compared to their disc-brake counterparts.

Similar comparisons are valid for a whole slew of manually-controlled devices such as cameras (where semi-auto provides really good results) and espresso machines (where semi-auto removes a lot of the inconsistencies of lever machines). The preferences for respective manual control come down to nostalgia and wanting to control as many aspects as possible.

Agree with most of this… but IIRC back in 2017 there was still a substantial extra charge for VW’s DSG tranny. Don’t know if that is still true.

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by palincss

Spend a little time driving in Metro DC, that'll cure you of your MT addiction.

hasnt cured me

[GonaSovereign]

I just drove one of these around north east France for a few days. Plug-in hybrid with quite a lot of torque so the lower HP was fine. More tech than i want, but not terrible. No manual, of course, but the auto worked well. It was nicely planted and the weight didn't mess with the ride in the corners. It would make a great daily if North Americans ever got their heads out of their posteriors and manufacturers gave people the option to make better buying decisions.

[old fat man]

These Corolla hybrid wagons are all over Spain. This would make so much sense in America

[goonster]

Originally Posted by echappist

The preferences for respective manual control come down to nostalgia and wanting to control as many aspects as possible.

Objection to your use of "nostalgia." Nobody wants unsynchronized transmissions and column shifters.

It comes down to driver experience, which is extremely subjective, but nonetheless valid and real. It is intrinsic to driving as a sensory and tactile activity, not just an exercise in transport and lap times.

[PacNW2Ford]

Originally Posted by Ralph

While manual transmissions (to me anyway) make driving more fun and engaging, and when learning to drive helps beginning drivers understand how an engine operates, they are no longer the way to go for performance vehicles. Even the CUP Series in NASCAR uses a DCT these days. Also Indy and F 1. And even regular tq converter 9-10 speed automatic cars are faster at the drag strip than manual versions. The latest Shelby GT 500 Mustang and Corvette has a DCT now. And while I really dislike CVT transmissions in many passenger cars, they give improved efficiency over manual trans vehicles. There is a good reason manual trans vehicles are going away....unfortunately.

NASCAR and Indy Cars do not use "DCT", they use sequential manuals.

[benb]

MT has one huge advantage over everything else in that it is a K.I.S.S. engineering solution.

I find DCT and gazillion speed automatics to be a huge kluge. They are expensive and overly complicated and expensive to fix and likely less reliable than MT. Often they have been pushed by manufacturers in cars that are not really used for sporting purposes and by manufacturers that already had a poor reputation for reliability.

CVT is theoretically less bothersome to me but in current reality is expensive and not as reliable as MT. But the more speeds you add to an AT/DCT the more silly it seems that they're not putting that development into CVT. And CVTs basically solve the issue of ATs/DCTs not being able to read your mind and react appropriately to driving conditions and the driver's behavior.

CVT is a dead end too though since we really don't need any of this with EVs.

Sequential manuals are a thing of beauty.. the only way most of us will ever try them is a motorcycle though. Nice motorcycle transmissions are really really satisfying. They still need to figure out how to do that on bicycles.

[Ralph]

Originally Posted by PacNW2Ford

NASCAR and Indy Cars do not use "DCT", they use sequential manuals.

You are correct. I should have said the cup series and Indy does not use traditional manuals like ones being discussed in this thread.

[MotoFly]

Not a thread I expected to see today! I have a 2016 Golf Sportwagen SEL TSI, and am obviously a fan of the station wagon/estate car lay-out. Good for carrying a bike and dogs.

In 2022-23 I had to replace the front right headlight assembly, and then the entire rack and pinion system failed, making the car inoperable. I waited and waited (stupidly) for three months for a local dealer to acquire OEM, which was never available, and then got a tip on a shop where the owners work on nothing but VWs and Audis. They fixed the car in a day simply taking the assembly off another card. Sure, no long warranty--but the car has been flawless ever since.

I like manuals too (but, then, I still like friction shifting) and test-drove a diesel Sportwagen with manual transmission, and might well have bought it . . . if a crazy driver had not run into us [I]precisely[I] as I pulled the car into a parking space at the dealer . . . that saleman's face!

If those old Saab 900 hatchbacks didn't all have so many miles against daily reliability, the roominess and driving experience would tempt me. I could be persuaded.

Tom Goodmann
Miami, FL

[thwart]

Originally Posted by MotoFly

Not a thread I expected to see today! I have a 2016 Golf Sportwagen SEL TSI, and am obviously a fan of the station wagon/estate car lay-out. Good for carrying a bike and dogs.

In 2022-23 I had to replace the front right headlight assembly, and then the entire rack and pinion system failed, making the car inoperable. I waited and waited (stupidly) for three months for a local dealer to acquire OEM, which was never available, and then got a tip on a shop where the owners work on nothing but VWs and Audis. They fixed the car in a day simply taking the assembly off another card. Sure, no long warranty--but the car has been flawless ever since.

I like manuals too (but, then, I still like friction shifting) and test-drove a diesel Sportwagen with manual transmission, and might well have bought it . . . if a crazy driver had not run into us [I]precisely[I] as I pulled the car into a parking space at the dealer . . . that saleman's face!

If those old Saab 900 hatchbacks didn't all have so many miles against daily reliability, the roominess and driving experience would tempt me. I could be persuaded.

Tom Goodmann
Miami, FL

Good first post.

Ha! Accident during a test drive... too bad, diesel Sportwagens sure are hard to find.