The jury selection process is in love with me

[unterhausen]

Originally Posted by Alistair

Honest question… do most employers really stiff their employees for time served on jury duty? I’m salaried, so it’s never been an issue for me.
Anyway, I agree that the $35/day my county pays jurors is ridiculous. That might cover lunch at the court cafe and gas to drive in. Maybe.

PA pays the standard federal rate for mileage, which for some reason hasn't increased enough. And $9 a day for the first 3 days, $25 after that. Not only do many low-wage employers not pay, but many of them really want to sanction employees for getting jury duty, so it may cause unemployment.

The guy sitting next to me last time I was at voir dire was ecstatic we were being let out early so he could go work his landscaping job for a few hours. Probably the first time he had ever been happy to go to work. Concentrated my mind on the issue of pay. I realized that some of the people in that room would have had real financial problems if they were on that frivolous civil trial for a week.

[Bob Ross]

Originally Posted by vespasianus

Get a higher degree. They never choose people that have a post-graduate degree.

I've been selected/empaneled three times since earning my Master's Degree.

Originally Posted by Elefantino

Would that I ever be in the position to face a jury, I wouldn't want it to be composed of pissed-off Why-Am-I-Heres.

I forget what standup comedian said this, but it was something to the effect of "I would hate to be judged by 12 people who were too dumb to get out of jury duty."

[blakcloud]

My whole life I wanted to be on a jury. I want the experience and it is the only bucket list item I have. At age 62 I was summoned in an Ontario court but the case was settled and my services no longer required. What a disappointment. Three years from that date, I may be selected again but it didn't happen in the first 44 years of eligibility I doubt it will happen again.

[Alistair]

Originally Posted by blakcloud

My whole life I wanted to be on a jury. I want the experience and it is the only bucket list item I have. At age 62 I was summoned in an Ontario court but the case was settled and my services no longer required. What a disappointment. Three years from that date, I may be selected again but it didn't happen in the first 44 years of eligibility I doubt it will happen again.

The single-day civil case I sat on was interesting from a “see what it’s like” perspective. But I wouldn’t want to get selected for a multi-week criminal trial. It was pretty boring. Lawyers are nowhere near as well spoken as on TV.

The was a car crash damages suit. One guy rear ended the other and caused some back/neck issues. Ask was for several hundred thousand, IIRC we came back with $35k. No lengthy deliberation. Started with people on both ends, from $0 to the full request. Took 90 min to decide that some damages were warranted but not the full amount.

[vespasianus]

Originally Posted by bigbill

I think it was why I was chosen. I think it depends on the case. In a wrongful death case against a doctor, a juror needs to understand the standards of practice as presented by both attorneys. Did the doctor follow the standards established by their specialization? In most cases, it's not a matter of opinion, it's a checklist of standards, and if the doctor followed them, and did nothing additional that could have caused death, then they did nothing wrong.

For the graduate level case, folks who have been through the process understand that if you object or disagree, you have to support your answer. Personal feelings have to stay out of it.

Very surprised at that. My lawyer friends all tell me they exclude those people as their language and explanations are all designed for the 7th grade level.

[bigbill]

Originally Posted by vespasianus

Very surprised at that. My lawyer friends all tell me they exclude those people as their language and explanations are all designed for the 7th grade level.

In this case, I think the testimony was over the heads of several jury members. It was interesting when we would be herded back to our room and folks would say "I don't understand what that meant." I understood, but I suggested they send a note to the judge asking for clarification. They did, and after the first two days, the lawyers made their presentation and explanation slides more simple.

I avoided influencing anyone beyond pointing to the points I wrote on the board that the plaintiff attorney said he would prove beyond a reasonable doubt. Which he did not. This was in Kingman, AZ, the county seat of Mohave County. Kingman has terrible schools and has the third highest crime rate in the state. Before I retired in 2022, about half my maintenance mechanics were felons and fewer than a third graduated from high school. I would imagine the jury pool is shallow.

[HenryA]

Here we start with a pool of 75 people. Multiple pools each month. I went a looonnng time without being called. Got called. I explained to the presiding judge that there was no way I would ever be seated in a criminal case.

I wanted to be on a jury but not a criminal jury because I would absolutely be kicked off as I practice in that court regularly and know all the DAs and they would absolutely boot me first. So it would have wasted everyone's time. Showed up and they picked the first panel in record time and not me! Did not call me back.

It was even more strange because in the pool was a sitting Supreme Court Justice, who when asked, stated that she could indeed be unbiased and would be pleased to be selected because it would be her civic duty. Immediate bump, of course.

If you ever get the chance serve on a jury. You will learn a lot.

[Red Tornado]

Here's the exemptions from my current summons. The only one pertaining to prior summons or service is circled.
Summ 1.jpg
The wife and I both seem to remember they used to have another line item on there that if you had been summoned within the past 3 or 6 months, but not served, you could be exempt. Probably did away with that one to enlarge the pool, but with the way the city I live in is expanding, you wouldn't think that would be necessary.

Also, in the main jury room, before they call your name to go to whatever courtroom, they give the potential jurors a chance to explain to the judge why they shouldn't serve. One of the things they tell you up front will NOT work is work-related travel/requirements/etc. "Your job is not as important as your civic duty", and, "If you own your own business and it will result in hardship if you don't work, that is not the courts problem", just to quote a few.
The only people I've ever seen get excused by the judge are those with a death in the family (the persons parents funeral was the next day), one time a woman who was a week past her pregnancy due date was excused, and a guy who was literally about to heave - and he looked like it.

While I really don't want to sit on a jury, if I'm picked I'll have to and I would do my best. That isn't what's grinding my gears the most, though. It's being summoned so freaking often, while other go their lives with only 1 or 2, or zero. Like I said in my OP, "random selection process, my a$$", there HAS TO be something else at work here.

[jlwdm]

There is a jury duty scam going around. Say you failed to show for jury duty in Federal District Court and a warrant is out for your arrest.

Then try to get personal info.

Called me twice in last 2 weeks.

Jeff

[holliscx]

By design my dad has never voted and never had jury duty

[pwgoode]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

I have always said they should take the jury duty list directly off the unemployment list. The gov is already paying people who are unemployed, may as well make them do something...

How are they going to look for work if they're stuck in the jury selection process?

Or wait, is this motivation to be gainfully employed so you don't have to get called for jury duty? I've been through the selection process a couple of times (never selected) and there are a lot of sh***y jobs I would take to avoid doing that again.

[unterhausen]

If they paid enough to live on, some unemployed people would probably be happy about jury duty.


I was just thinking about lawyers not wanting to take people with advanced degrees. I would say they would have to be careful selecting people with a Ph.D.

[nalax]

In Illinois, after you turn 70 you can opt out of jury duty permanently or selectively. The work I've done in the past has also made me less desirable for jury selection, as a photojournalist and then underwriter for lawyer's liability insurance. So being 75 and having seen the disciplinary status for many firms and attorneys, my days of being picked are in the past. I do have to say that the Cook County criminal court was a colorful scene 40 years ago.

[bigbill]

Originally Posted by unterhausen

If they paid enough to live on, some unemployed people would probably be happy about jury duty.


I was just thinking about lawyers not wanting to take people with advanced degrees. I would say they would have to be careful selecting people with a Ph.D.

I think I was chosen because at the time, I was the chief engineer at a manufacturing plant. My American History MA probably didn't matter as much. I think it depends on the case. If there are technical processes or practices that might have been violated, having someone with knowledge of process engineering might hurt or help, depending on the subject.

When I was on the malpractice/wrongful death jury, the plaintiff attorney used the terms "beyond a reasonable doubt" and I held him to it.

[HenryA]

Originally Posted by unterhausen

If they paid enough to live on, some unemployed people would probably be happy about jury duty.


I was just thinking about lawyers not wanting to take people with advanced degrees. I would say they would have to be careful selecting people with a Ph.D.

In very general terms it might be undesirable to have an obvious “leader” on a jury. You might want 12 independent thinkers. But you can never be sure about who is going to think one way or another.

“Rule followers” might be another category to watch out for. Whose rules will they follow?

Jury selection is a black art and science. There are people out there who are jury selection consultants. Its kinda crazy.

If there’s time and enough help, a search of the potential jurors social media might tell you something. But a list of 75 people a day in advance is a lot to digest.