Moots Carbon Gravel E-bike!

[Likes2ridefar]

Originally Posted by benb

Again we've just convinced ourselves it's OK.

Obviously I've been riding in packs for decades. Crashes happen more often and with more serious consequences when we ride in tight packs.

All those big pileups we see in races.. they would almost always be single rider crashes if the riders weren't in a pack.

You step outside our bubble and people think we're nuts. Even MTB riders.

I've had one road crash where I got hit by a car. Every other crash I have had was caused by being in a group pileup. I have never had a solo road group crash personally.

I’ve never crashed riding on paved roads except for three times. All three were in races and because of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . it seems to me they have a made a carefully considered calculation that by doing this they will lose a portion of their current "sophisticated" custom titanium buyer market.

BUT in return they will leverage their brand reputation to sell a lot more of these ebikes. Some will be to the same custom buyers who now have age or health-related problems, or both. But many others will be less experienced but well-heeled riders who just want the exclusivity of the brand. But either way Moots will make a lot more money.

In journalism school over 40 years ago they taught us to "follow the money." That's all you need to do here. It's about the money It's always about the money.

I'd bet some of that money that these bikes come out of the exact same "Asian partner" factory that makes ebikes for a dozen other brands.

BBD

[weaponsgrade]

The only thing that says "Moots" to me is the logo on the downtube. James Huang from Escape put down his thoughts on it. I'm in the same camp (https://escapecollective.com/moots-express-e-bike/). The article mentions Moots is now majority owned by a group of investors. Going out on a limb here, but I bet the PowerPoint went something like: snap-up a highly-regarded brand, sticker name on a generic bike, make big profit margins, take money and run.

[Jaybee]

yep^^

As an aside, independent media James Huang is the best James Huang. He's always been refreshingly candid in his takes, but I've really liked his work since he joined the EC crew.

[Xrslug]

Originally Posted by weaponsgrade

The only thing that says "Moots" to me is the logo on the downtube. James Huang from Escape put down his thoughts on it. I'm in the same camp (https://escapecollective.com/moots-express-e-bike/). The article mentions Moots is now majority owned by a group of investors. Going out on a limb here, but I bet the PowerPoint went something like: snap-up a highly-regarded brand, sticker name on a generic bike, make big profit margins, take money and run.

This is it. Per Escape Collective article, the new-ish owner sold 80% stake in Moots to private equity at height of the pandemic bike boom. PE is driving this.

[krooj]

At last! The nudge I needed to validate asking Sacha & Co. to make my 'vagen an e-Bike when I see them next week!

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by benb

Again we've just convinced ourselves it's OK.

Obviously I've been riding in packs for decades. Crashes happen more often and with more serious consequences when we ride in tight packs.

All those big pileups we see in races.. they would almost always be single rider crashes if the riders weren't in a pack.

You step outside our bubble and people think we're nuts. Even MTB riders.

I've had one road crash where I got hit by a car. Every other crash I have had was caused by being in a group pileup. I have never had a solo road group crash personally.

There is no black and white, everything activity has an element of risk.
What's OK or not OK is a matter of how much risk you are willing to except. To many, simply riding a motorcycle at all is in the "not OK" category, given that the chances of crashing and dying on a motorcycle are multiple times that of riding in an automobile (on a per mile basis, there are 24 times more fatalities on motorcycles than in cars).

Surely, there are more crashes when drafting than when riding solo, but it may not be any riskier than some other activities that many people engage in (for example, snow mobiling or scuba diving).

[Toddtwenty2]

In my view, Firefly wins this e-bike round:

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=242535

https://fireflybicycles.com/ebike-upgrade/

[redir]

Originally Posted by Burnette

I totally get it. It's been a few years of the bike now for me and going by the LBS, I was surprised to see si many E bikes. But it makes sense.

The majority of people don't enjoy bikes in the same way as intense bike enthusiasts do.

Years ago I asked three LBS what they're most popular sellers were and it was hybrid bikes used for local trails, bike paths and around the neighborhood.

I live in the foothills of NC and getting in shape to handle 8% rollers and a few 12 and 15% grades in the road can be challenging. I personally enjoy the journey back to fitness and riding long miles.

Most people who ride casually would find it intimidating and/or don't have the time or interest to do the work to make it easy to do.

I'm all for inclusion, a bigger cycling community is good for us all as we face laws and taxes that can hinder our participation in the hobby/sport we love.

It's smart for Moots to offer this. You get riders whose fitness level isn't high, either through age, physical condition or lack of interest in training on your bikes. You also get novice riders who may enjoy the activity enough to want a traditional non powered bike, you open opportunities for future sales.

It's good business

Right, e-bikes make a lot of sense for that market of people, those who might find it enjoyable to tool around the neighborhood, get groceries or even commute but a $10 grand 'racing machine?'

Racing bikes are often sold to enthusiasts or to those who want to cycle for fitness and probably should not be on racing bikes and they usually end up hanging them on a hook and never using them again. And of course racing bikes are sold to amateur racers. But not to that market of people.

That's why I just don't get this move by Moots. You cannot race that machine so those people are out. That leaves them with the rest that you mention and I just can't see people like that paying that kind of money on a brand they probably never even heard of.

[d_douglas]

I can live with e-Bikes, but that is just ugly. I agree - moots shouldnt waver from titanium. Firefly makes ebikes that are amazing - in ti. Moots are the masters and they should just go with what they know. Not everyone likes carbon and that is where they fit in.

[buddybikes]

Originally Posted by Toddtwenty2

In my view, Firefly wins this e-bike round:

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=242535

https://fireflybicycles.com/ebike-upgrade/

Without a doubt, Jamie commutes daily with his. But...30month wait :-(. before I got my Alchemy, I called and pleaded with them, ended up with Alchemy (which I love but kind of understand that Bosch is probably more robust)

[teleguy57]

Read this thread and as one of the people who could be a target market for this bike I'd like those who are quick to jump all over Moots to lighten up.

Heading for aortic valve replacement and a potential ascending aortic graft some time in the intermediate future. My cardiologist has given me some limitations on exertion level so while I'd like to go out and hammer on my delicious custom ti Alliance with the dudes/dudettes on our Wed night worlds it ain't happening.

I like nice bikes, and have had several steel and ti customs along the way. My new-this-season Trek Domane+ fits me incredibly well, rides like a real road bike and important to me, looks like a road bike and allows me a great road position. I can keep up in a group when I want to. Most of my riding is solo, and while I only use the assist maybe 15% of the time, I can ride farther than a small chainring twiddle would allow, and I can get the bike up hills and into stiff headwinds without dropping to single-digit speeds.

Trek has done well here by me, and I have to think Moots will do well by a small target market as well.

PS. I do get out on the Alliance regularly too; when I get on the Domane+ I don't feel like I'm giving up riding a quality bike and have just as great an experience being out as I live in my 'Secret Life of Walter Mitty' world thinking I'm riding with Spartacus and the rest of my posse on the pave of northern Europe.

End of semi-rant.

[markdjr]

I enjoyed reading this thread. Moots continues to make some of the dumbest decisions, it really blows my mind. I am a big fan of ebikes, I'm fine with expensive ebikes too. That being said, I can't imagine this being a decent seller. I think they would have moved more $15k Moots Ti ebikes than however many of these they end up selling. This is a company that rested too long on their history, got outpaced by the likes of Firefly, No22, etc. and is now on their way to dying a slow death.

[fa63]

This is one area where building with carbon has a definite advantage; that external downtube mounted battery looks awful in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Toddtwenty2

In my view, Firefly wins this e-bike round:

https://fireflybicycles.com/ebike-upgrade/

[mstateglfr]

Originally Posted by weaponsgrade

Going out on a limb here, but I bet the PowerPoint went something like: snap-up a highly-regarded brand, sticker name on a generic bike, make big profit margins, take money and run.

Its a more complete plan than the gnomes of South Park had.