OT - Ohtani's 50/50

[username]

It's hard to have a positive thread around here, isn't it? I guess that's just the nature of the internet.

Returning to the OP, what Ohtani's done has been amazing, and what he did the other night actually took my breath away, even though I'm years past being deeply invested in MLB. Nevertheless, it's fun watching a generational talent, regardless of their chosen field, do their thing.

[cgolvin]

Originally Posted by Elefantino

The documentary "It Ain't Over" shows just how underrated Berra was.

Indeed, that was what triggered my memory (I knew about his K rate). I particularly enjoyed the opening scene of the documentary, telling the story through his grand (?) daughter's eyes.

[cgolvin]

Originally Posted by username

Returning to the OP, what Ohtani's done has been amazing, and what he did the other night actually took my breath away, even though I'm years past being deeply invested in MLB. Nevertheless, it's fun watching a generational talent, regardless of their chosen field, do their thing.

Take a look at the pitch he his last night for #52 -- that thing had no business yielding a hit let alone a dinger.

[glepore]

I don't care to compare eras either, but I'm with Joe Buck, maybe the best single game ever, or at least in the last 25 yrs.

50/50 is spectacular, but 6/6 3 hr, 2 stolen bases, 10! rbi. Top that

[username]

Originally Posted by cgolvin

Take a look at the pitch he his last night for #52 -- that thing had no business yielding a hit let alone a dinger.

Thanks for prompting me! Absurd to be that strong, that quick, and have that kind of hand-eye coordination.

[cgolvin]

Originally Posted by glepore

I don't care to compare eras either, but I'm with Joe Buck, maybe the best single game ever, or at least in the last 25 yrs.

50/50 is spectacular, but 6/6 3 hr, 2 stolen bases, 10! rbi. Top that

Comparisons are difficult; I'm not sure I can agree with Joe. Shawn Green's line in 2002: 6/6, 4 hr, 7 RBI, 6 runs scored (SO had 4), 19 total bases (MLB record). Plus, the fact that SO's 3rd HR and final 3 (?) RBI came off a position player pitching puts a slight ding in his (impressive as hell) line.

[kiwisimon]

just coming here to say that if it weren't for Hideo Nomo MLB would have most likely missed out on a massive bunch of Japanese talent.
And Seattle didn't deserve Ichiro.
The media frenzie around Hideo here in Japan was nuts. Comparing it, SO is not that much of a big deal.

[veloduffer]

[QUOTE=Elefantino;3425090]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

Obv, in any sport it's hard to measure eras. Is Aroldis Chapman faster than Bob Feller or Nolan Ryan? Probably not. (Ryan's 100.8 was clocked just in front of the plate, not at the release, as pitches are today. And Feller stood in front of a rudimentary radar and threw one pitch at 117!) But as a group today's MLB pitchers are a good 5-6 mph faster on average than they were even 20 years ago. Could Mays hit today? His fastest rivals were arguably Gibson and Koufax, each of which threw in the estimated mid-90s. He batted .196 against Gibby and .278 against Koufax. Williams? He owned Feller, the fastest pitcher in his era, hitting .364 against him. So, a mixed bag.

Aside: The greatest hitter I (as a former baseball writer) ever saw was, no question, Tony Gwynn. Not even close. Also the nicest human ever.

One of the problems comparing baseball eras is that the equipment and fields have changed. Prior to the 1960s-70s, the baseball was "dead" (less lively), they didn't change them as frequently so there were more scuffs, pitchers threw spitballs and at batters (particularly after a HR). Moreover the fences in most stadiums were much further back than today -- e.g. Yankee Stadium centerfield was 490 feet in 1928 vs 408 ft today. Also the mound was higher giving the pitchers a distinct advantage.

Other differences include there were many doubleheaders, travel was by train, uniforms were heavy wool and mitts were tiny.

I recommend "Men at Work" by George F. Will (the conservative writer) which featured Tony Gwynn on the section about hitting; he interviewed Orel Hersheiser on pitching, Tony La Russa on managing and Cal Ripken on fielding. One thing baseball seems to lend itself to literature better than other sports - so many great books.

[XXtwindad]

Since this thread has morphed into something different than just Ohtani, several players are also having epic years, including Judge, Witt Jr., Skubal, and Sale.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/577...lb-storylines/

One question apropos of that: what exactly is the “WAR?” Also, to confuse things further, there’s fWAR and bWAR. What’s the difference? Doesn’t this technically mean “wins above replacement?” I don’t understand how that’s an accurate metric of performance.

But Kansas City Royals shortstop Bobby Witt Jr. is also going to have one of the greatest seasons in history. Witt, too, reached 10 fWAR this week, putting him within shouting distance of Cal Ripken Jr. (10.6 WAR in 1991) and Lou Boudreau (10.9 in 1948) for the highest WAR season by a shortstop since Honus Wagner in 1908.

One-two punch

This will be just the seventh season in which two different players finish with at least 10 fWAR. The first three instances were in the 1920s (all with Babe Ruth and Rogers Hornsby; Gehrig joined them in 1927). The others were in 1948 (Boudreau and Stan Musial), 1961 (Mantle and Norm Cash) and 2002 (Bonds and Alex Rodriguez).

Judge still leads the Baseball-Reference version of WAR by a much larger margin (9.8 to 9.2). There have been only two seasons since 1927 in which two position players got to 10 bWAR — 1948 (Boudreau and Musial) and 2001 (Bonds and Sammy Sosa) — and with Baltimore Orioles shortstop Gunnar Henderson at 8.6 bWAR and Boston Red Sox center fielder Jarren Duran at 8.5, it’s going to come close to being the fourth season ever — and the first since 1927 — to have three different players with at least 9.5 bWAR.

[fiamme red]

He will likely be the first to 55/55.

[wc1934]

Originally Posted by fiamme red

He will likely be the first to 55/55.

Hit his 54th (going 4 for 5) and stealing his 57th base.
24 hits in his last 34 at bats = 309 BA, but might fall a bit short for the triple crown.

Stay healthy and might become modern day GOAT.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by wc1934

Hit his 54th (going 4 for 5) and stealing his 57th base.
24 hits in his last 34 at bats = 309 BA, but might fall a bit short for the triple crown.

Stay healthy and might become modern day GOAT.

Often overlooked (including myself): he’s only been caught 4 times in 61 attempts. Just unreal.

[wc1934]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

Often overlooked (including myself): he’s only been caught 4 times in 61 attempts. Just unreal.

Increasing bag size makes things more interesting.

[kiwisimon]

Originally Posted by wc1934

Increasing bag size makes things more interesting.

changing the rules to keep fans happy, makes good business sense.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by kiwisimon

changing the rules to keep fans happy, makes good business sense.

In this case, definitely. Remember the 80s? Rickey. Wiggins. Raines. Molitor. Young Bonds. Ozzie. Vince Coleman. Actually, the entire mid-Eighties Cardinals. That was a fun team to watch and a fun time to be a fan.

Then came the Steroid Era. The fans wanted the long ball (or so they were told) It ushered in the era of walk, strikeout, home run. A lot of standing around. Boring as hell.

Making the game more athletic is a great change.