Rapha closes North American office

[Louis]

Oh no - I'm crushed! Where am I going to get my African hair goat gloves and Tibetan yak leather shoes?

[mdeth1313]

Never impressed with their stuff. I believe the only thing I ever purchased from them was a kid's jersey for my son, and that was clearance. Absolutely none of their stuff jumped out and made me think I really wanted it.

Well that and most of their stuff seems to be colors that make you invisible on the road (to drivers).

[makoti]

Originally Posted by RoosterCogset

What if in the first scenario, the 7 millionaires have $999,999,999 each, and the billionaires have $10,000,000,000 each. And in the 2nd group, the 3 millionaires have $1,000,001 each, and the 7 billionaires each have $1,000,000,001 ?

Doesn't matter. There are 10 more people in the second town. You're talking total wealth. The question was #, regardless of actual wealth.

[windsurfer]

Originally Posted by RoosterCogset

What if in the first scenario, the 7 millionaires have $999,999,999 each, and the billionaires have $10,000,000,000 each. And in the 2nd group, the 3 millionaires have $1,000,001 each, and the 7 billionaires each have $1,000,000,001 ?

Huh?

[Mr. Pink]

Originally Posted by mickey.d

The Waltons force any brand they do business with to open an office in Bentonville.
Fun fact! 100 years ago the most millionaires per capita were in a small WV county where coal executives lived. Now it’s Benton County, AR.

A million ain't what it used to be. But I bet it goes a lot further in Arkansas.

[peanutgallery]

Not really. He signed up like years ago and rarely participates. Sold his company to VC guys and took up the dying husk that is American road racing. Direct reports to a a guy named Stuart that spells his name funny

Originally Posted by Kyle h

Isn’t said person a member here?

[raygunner]

Originally Posted by 72gmc

I don't have any Rapha or a Gunnar. I've missed everything.

I'm still disappointed I never got a Waterford touring bike!

[RoosterCogset]

Originally Posted by makoti

If someplace has 7 millionaires, and 3 billionaires and 100 people in town, it has a higher # of millionaires per capita than someplace with 3 millionaires and 7 billionaires but 110 people. The latter has a higher average and mean, but a lower per capita.

Originally Posted by RoosterCogset

What if in the first scenario, the 7 millionaires have $999,999,999 each, and the billionaires have $10,000,000,000 each. And in the 2nd group, the 3 millionaires have $1,000,001 each, and the 7 billionaires each have $1,000,000,001 ?

Originally Posted by windsurfer

Huh?

The first scenario has a higher average and mean. Of course though, we don't know what the income of the other 90/100 people is.

[benb]

Originally Posted by Butch

The thing that gets me is the price the Waltons paid for Rapha, $260,000,000 for a company doing ~$100,000,000 a year max. When the sale was made the price was some huge multiple of EBITDA.

As with so many companies in this industry, a buyer, from outside the bike industry, comes in and overestimates what a niche brand is worth and how much it can grow.

Is it just me but after Simon sold it there seemed to be constant sales to the point where I remember people saying they would "just wait till it goes on sale".

And here I am in software and that wouldn’t be that great of an exit. The last acquisition I went through we made similar revenue and got bought for more than double what Rapha did. Our margins were probably more than 10x theirs though and we kept growing after the acquisition. The whole thing could just be a fun play money diversion for the Waltons though and they don’t care. We buy some clothes and a new bike, N+1 for them means they buy the clothing company and bike company so they can tell them to make whatever they want.

Does Rapha stuff last forever and ever like Assos? I still haven’t tried Rapha but the funny thing with some of these clothes that are exceptionally well made is they get less repeat business than stuff that’s just a little less expensive but lasts 1/4 as long. With bibs I’ve had an awful lot of them that cost 80% of what Assos cost but last 1/4-1/2 as long. Is Rapha like that?

I don’t know where I could even try on their jerseys these days but jerseys are the thing these days that annoys me. Quality seems way down and a lot of brands have biased fit towards people with more weight. I end up being stuck between race fit and regular fit. Race fit only works if I get really skinny. Regular fit is too loose in the chest and gut when I’m out of shape and everywhere when I’m in shape.

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by benb

Does Rapha stuff last forever and ever like Assos? I still haven’t tried Rapha but the funny thing with some of these clothes that are exceptionally well made is they get less repeat business than stuff that’s just a little less expensive but lasts 1/4 as long.

Their classic/merino stuff in the past does seem to last forever. I have bibs and long sleeve jerseys and base layers that are at least 10 years old and they're fine.

I tried some of the 'core' products and send them back without even trying them on, same with the leg/arm warmers they redesigned.

[makoti]

Originally Posted by RoosterCogset

The first scenario has a higher average and mean. Of course though, we don't know what the income of the other 90/100 people is.

Ok. No. Probably.
Remember that the average and mean referred to income amount, not # per capita.
Assuming the non-millionaires have the same income in both scenarios, the Average for the first is 37M. The average for the second is ~63M.
The mean income will be just over 50 in the first, just over 55 in the second, so basically, given the beginning numbers are different, likely the same percentile.

[Likes2ridefar]

Originally Posted by .RJ

Their classic/merino stuff in the past does seem to last forever. I have bibs and long sleeve jerseys and base layers that are at least 10 years old and they're fine.

I tried some of the 'core' products and send them back without even trying them on, same with the leg/arm warmers they redesigned.

I only use rapha jerseys and still do because I got free classic pro lightweight jerseys many years ago that lasted forever, fit perfect and performed great. I only use the higher end models and never tried core. Even the very ultralight summer jersey with mesh lasts a very long time.

Assos bibs have consistently disappointed me ever since my fantastic experience with s5 UNO. 3 pairs lasted me a ton of mileage and only were retired because the material became see through after a decade or so.

Every pair since from their highest to mid range cost has failed usually after a few years. One cost me 230 not long ago and has delaminated across the belly exposing the tension band or whatever it’s called under the fabric.

I really want to find another brand bibs that fit and perform the same but still haven’t so deal with the shoddy quality. Thankfully I have a talented SO at home and she patches them up to extend.

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by Likes2ridefar

I really want to find another brand bibs that fit and perform the same but still haven’t so deal with the shoddy quality. Thankfully I have a talented SO at home and she patches them up to extend.

I've gone the other way and bought a pile from the black bibs. They're cheap, they're good enough, and so far they're holding up as well as anything, and I dont care if they get torn up.

I'll +1 your comment on the summer jerseys too, they're fantastic. I really liked the flyweight line but it fell apart after a summer of use and washing.

[cgolvin]

Originally Posted by benb

Does Rapha stuff last forever and ever like Assos? I still haven’t tried Rapha but the funny thing with some of these clothes that are exceptionally well made is they get less repeat business than stuff that’s just a little less expensive but lasts 1/4 as long. With bibs I’ve had an awful lot of them that cost 80% of what Assos cost but last 1/4-1/2 as long. Is Rapha like that?

I have a lot of Rapha kit, all Pro Team, Brevet, or Classic (I wouldn't touch the Core products). IME the jerseys last very well (especially, as noted in the thread, the merino blend ones). My only complaint is that one jersey lost its stretch in the back so the pockets sag (I use it anyway).

The bibs of the previous decade lasted forever but the more recent ones tend to fail after 3-4 years of once a week use (roughly). In general the failures fall into two categories: the stitching of the pad unravels a little or the pad begins to detach internally. The first category is by far more common and, fortunately, is easily remedied by someone with even mediocre tailoring skills.

That said, in every instance of their bibs failing, I have sent Rapha a repair request and they say "we can't repair that, here's a voucher for 40% of the original cost." In contrast, the one pair of MAAP bibs I had got quite thin and lost their compression after several years and MAAP said (in effect) "too bad, they're old."

Originally Posted by benb

I don’t know where I could even try on their jerseys these days

They've recently struck a wholesale deal with Trek (among other LBSs), so if you have a Trek store in the vicinity you might check with them. I know a bunch of stores here have begun to offer their stuff (which is a huge PITA for the Rapha store since people come to them for returns and they have to say "sorry."

[avalonracing]

I'm a big fan of Rapha's "Core" line. They are cut a bit like cycling and racing jerseys were about twenty years ago. Unlike current cycling kits, they don't have sleeves that go to your elbows and no collars with wide neck openings.
I really recommend trying the Core line if you are looking for a great fit and don't want to look like you're trying to be a 130lb Euro-pro.