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#46
12-01-2020, 11:08 AM
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Actually, “Rene Herse Stigmata” is quite a catchy name for their next tubeless line.
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#47
12-01-2020, 11:27 AM
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#48
12-01-2020, 11:28 AM
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Outside of thorns, can anyone really explain the benefits of going through this trouble for a 700x35 tire that would mount up with a lightweight tube in few minutes?
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#49
12-01-2020, 11:40 AM
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The weird thing here is we do have plenty of thorns on vines that ought to be able to pierce a tire just fine.
And yet I don't really think I've ever managed to ride over a vine just right to do so. Certainly they grow across trails, I snagged my clothes on some just last week. But they often just don't seem to be in the right place for you to actually ride over it and puncture the tire, perhaps just cause trail work + riders/hikers/horses passing by keep them off the trail. It really seems to require local plants that actually shed the thorns onto the ground, ours don't do that.
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#51
12-01-2020, 11:50 AM
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Certainly it's location dependent. Anyone who has lived in the Southwest US for a time knows what a goathead is. I grew up in southern NM; pre-tubeless you could get so many goatheads imbedded in your tire that it made more sense to scrap the tire than try to pick every little thorn out.
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#52
12-01-2020, 12:07 PM
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I know. It's all about low pressure which equals grip. Is that the deal? I find that I dislike having a low pressure tire squirm around. That feeling makes me nervous on trail. For me, riding with tubes (mtb and road) is a low hassle thing. Maybe I ride "light" in that I don't bash into things and get pinch flats. However, I wouldn't say that I'm exactly taking it easy when riding mtb. I hardly ever (knock on Spruce) pinch flat. Hell, cannot remember the last time I flatted like that. Having to deal with mounting woes, refreshing, having an issue trail/roadside... For me, tubeless seems like solving a problem that doesn't exist. But y'all go for it. I enjoy scratching my heads at these threads. And, atmo, RH tires kick serious ass. SOOOO I guess my question for all tubless posters here is: do you ride in an area with Goat Heads (thus why you run tubeless)? If not, why bother with it? Not trying to be snarky. Trying to understand the reason for use.
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#53
12-01-2020, 12:29 PM
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Inner tubes often weigh 1/3 as much as the tire or more. A Schwalbe SV17 weighs ~150g whereas a Bon Jon EL weighs ~305g. Sealant has weight itself, but it's not as much and behaves differently. I haven't had a flat* since I went tubeless on 32mm and larger tires four years ago. Coagulated sealant at apparent punctures in the tread visible when tires are removed indicate I would've had flats had I been using tubes. Tubeless isn't for everyone and that's fine. But, it sure seems that a disproportionate amount of the hand-wringing comes from people who don't actually use tubeless setups in the configurations they are going on about. In my experience, I have to add air to my tires much less with my tubeless setups than I ever had to with tubes. I doubt I would abandon inner tubes if I still used tires narrower than 32mm. Higher pressures really seem to decrease the advantages and increase the problems according to posts on this forum and others. *I once had to stop to add some air to a non-tubeless Pacenti Pari-Moto that lost pressure before the sealant did its job.
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#54
12-01-2020, 12:46 PM
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I have similar experiences to the Colonel above. Less time futzing with tires overall, one (1) road or trailside repair incident in the last 5 years which was primarily my fault for stuffing a light tire in the middle of a bunch of square edged rocks. I frequently smash my MTB into stuff that I'm sure is going to cut a tire and would be a pinch flat every time if I had tubes and it just keeps rolling. Refresh sealant every few months or so, maybe pull the tire off once a year to pull out the old sealant, maybe not. Usually the tire is pretty done by that point anyway.
But experiences like people are describing with the RH tires above would put me off it for sure. When you've got tubeless, extremely thin supple sidewalls are actually detrimental. You'll end up with more pressure than necessary to avoid the tire folding in corners and the overall ride is worse.
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#56
12-01-2020, 01:15 PM
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I definitely prefer tubeless and have not had many issues as it relates to tubeless set ups. The Herse tires are the best riding tires for me and my use out where I live. I find that tubeless set ups ride smoother and I do not even run very low tire pressures as I am heavy and tend to prefer how they ride near their max pressures.
I do not typically get a lot of flats where I live as the roads tend to not have much in the way of sharp debris and such. It is the ride quality of tubeless that I prefer. There are quirks to them and I get it, but I have not used an inner tube since selling my Columbine. I have a stash of close to 30 butyl tubes here that will likely sit unused as well as some nice 23mm tires. Just not in the cards for me any time soon. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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#57
12-01-2020, 01:28 PM
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First of all, we're always sorry when customers have issues with the products we sell. We work hard, and so do our suppliers, to minimize these as much as possible.
Tubeless is an emerging technology, with no standards yet. We're working with the ASTM and ISO to establish standards that hopefully will ensure compatibility in the future. As others have noted, the same tires work great on some rims, and are a terribly loose fit on others. That indicates it's not the tires, but the rims, that are the issue. This affects not just our tires –*somebody posted a link to Simworks, and I know Schwalbe has similar concerns. There simply is a huge variability in rims these days. At one end, high-end carbon rims like Enve and Zipp are tight-fitting, and if we make our tires any smaller, they won't go on at all. At the other end, many OEM rims that come on production bikes are undersized. Some of that is intentional –*it makes mounting tires much easier at the big factories that assemble the bikes – and some of it is just due to tolerances. The high-end rims have tight tolerances – they are all pretty much the same –*but the OEM rims are made to much looser standards. And since a rim that's too big is a no-go – the tire won't go on – most rim makers err on the side of making them smaller, when in doubt. (Imagine if you've got 5000 wheelsets at the factory for assembly into bikes, and you find out that the tires don't go on!) Generally, the more supple a tire, the more demanding it is to mount, especially tubeless. So if you've got any doubts about your rims, we recommend the Endurance or Endurance Plus versions... The Endurance rolls as fast as our Standard casing – which means as fast or faster than any other tire in the industry – so it's a great choice for all-round riding. This doesn't mean that you can't run an Extralight tubeless, but it requires a rim that is just the right size and a little more care in setup. Thank you to all who've chimed in. We're working hard to bring some standards into this crazy situation. Jan Heine Rene Herse Cycles
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#60
12-01-2020, 01:32 PM
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I went tubeless on my MTB in 2006 IIRC and I've still got those same rims and had to go back to tubes this year due to corrosion around the valve stems. Not sure what I'm going to do when I replace my MTB. The bike is very long in the tooth and I've already told my wife for several years if a big repair is needed expect to see me buy a new MTB.
My guess is tubeless actually consumed more time than if I'd stuck with tubes teh whole time due to the extra mount/unmount time + sealant time + refreshing sealant. I would never say I had that much trouble with it but it's definitely more time consuming, and my # of flats on tubes is very very low as well. I've always rode way more on the road + gravel and flats are just rare. And I can definitely change a flat with a tubed tire faster than I can refresh sealant in the tubeless setup. I am really lazy about refreshing the sealant but I still do it like 2x a year at least, I probably average less than 1 flat per year on the tubed tire setups and there's no way the total time wasted on the tubed setup is more than the tubeless. When I went tubeless on my MTB I thought it was great.. now that I'm back with tubes I'm not sure it was that important.. 14 years of riding I've learned a lot about that bike, picking out the right tires, getting pressures right, getting shock/fork setup right, bike fit, picking lines, etc.. and when I went back to tubed tires this year it was kind of no big deal.. I didn't notice much of a drop in performance or a need to increase pressures. The whole thing gives me zero motivation to try it on a road bike or gravel bike really.
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