Long term reviews of Chorus 12 speed versus 11?

[vespasianus]

[QUOTE=R3awak3n;2821301]

Originally Posted by vespasianus

Sounds like you own a 12 campy group.

But yes definitely my opinion. However it has been a collective online opinion ever since 12 came out. But again, yes, some people can find the new stuff good looking.

Actually I don't. Chorus 11 speed and Shimano mountain 12 speed are what are on my bikes.

But I like the look of the Chorus 12 speed. Very batman like!

[shinomaster]

To me the new Campy RD looks a lot like my favorite Alien.

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by shinomaster

To me the new Campy RD looks a lot like my favorite Alien.

The new Campy rear derailleurs look like baby aliens, and everyone knows all babies are cute.

[shinomaster]

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

The new Campy rear derailleurs look like baby aliens, and everyone knows all babies are cute.

haha like at the end of Space Balls?

[boywander]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Yes, some of 'us' buy assemblies and strip for parts(altho I haven't heard of anybody else doing this) BUT not much can go wrong with these..VERY simple and robust internals.

I AM buying a RH Record/Chorus lever assembly on Monday..I want to strip and peer inside.

I’m interested in your discovery.

[mcteague]

I think Campy gets a lot of flack for ugly components because, for a long time, they had the best looking stuff. I agree that, in the end, form follows function but it’s a shame the Italian style had to be sacrificed in the bargain.

Tim

[Charles M]

Go 12.

Better front and rear actuation

[merckxman]

Very happy with 12s 48/32 12-34. Works great. The brakes are amazing.

[thirdgenbird]

Originally Posted by merckxman

Very happy with 12s 48/32 12-34. Works great. The brakes are amazing.

Rim or disc?

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by merckxman

Very happy with 12s 48/32 12-34.

Who makes the 12-34?

[denapista]

Reviving an old thread...

I'm a fan of Campy and I built my Firefly with Shimano 9100.. I haven't touched my Carbon bike (Campy 11 SR) for months. I rode it recently and now I want to remove the Shimano from my Firefly.. I never realized how good the Campy hoods feel and the blob feel of Shimano.

I run THM cranks on all of my bikes and recently got Carbon-Ti rings for the FF build. I want to go Campy 12, but damn it's getting hard to pull the trigger. I had to get a Freehub for the wheels to switch Shimano/Campy and then the Campy 12s Cassette pricing is wild! Also will a 12s chain work on Carbon Ti rings with the Campy 12 RD? At this point I'm just going to look for a good set of SR11 components. The sad part is swapping 11s wheels around between all of my bikes..

Why this dumb move to 12S to begin with? I can see the need via electronic but Mechanical?

[Dave]

I switched to Chorus 12 as soon as it came out because I wanted the 48/32 crank and 11-34 for lower gearing. It worked wonderfully for over a year, on two bikes. All 12 speed cassettes are more expensive, but I never buy Record. Chorus is a lot cheaper. Both have all steel sprockets, the high price just shaves a little weight.

You might find more info on the chain ring compatibility at the weight weenies forum.

I got the electronic bug a few month ago and now have Force AXS 12 speed, initially with the Chorus 48/32 cranks and 10-36 Force cassettes, but now with even lower gearing using shimano grx 46/30 cranks. No complaints about the performance.

[jkbrwn]

Originally Posted by denapista

Reviving an old thread...

Also will a 12s chain work on Carbon Ti rings with the Campy 12 RD? At this point I'm just going to look for a good set of SR11 components. The sad part is swapping 11s wheels around between all of my bikes..

To answer your question:

Yes, a 12s chain will work on your carbon-ti rings with a 12s rear derailleur. I am running Praxis 11sp rings and it works. HOWEVER. Does it work well? Hmm, not really. Campagnolo changed the spacing ever so slightly with 12sp as far as I understand and it pushes the chainline out ever so slightly from 11sp. Therefore, 12sp rings just work better. It'll start off fine. It'll shift nicely in the workstand and even on the road but then over time, it'll get a bit noisy and shifting won't be as good. My shifting is now pretty lackluster and so is drivetrain noise. I just need to buy Campagnolo cranks/rings. And so should you if you buy any 12 speed Campagnolo groupset.

Here's a post from Craig Gaulzetti that describes the exact behaviour I have found from running 11sp rings on an otherwise totally 12sp setup:

Originally Posted by jerk

they moved the chain line out with the 12 speed cranks to mimic the spacing of their 11speed disc brake specific crankset. with enough dikking with it you can get it work perfectly in the stand probably and maybe even out on the road if you're using small chainrings and your bike has longish chain stays. but as soon as stuff starts to wear- or if the chain gets a little mucked up- or you shift like a jerk under load pr any number of other not nice things- the bike is going to be far less likely to shift smoothly. you'll also almost certainly get some rubbing on the big chainring when the chain is on the small cog in the little cogs on the cassette and the chain will be more prone to falling off too.

it isn't the width of the rings that is the problem- although they're not correct either- it's the chainline. modern drivetrains work super well-but they are sensitive to chainline. the new campy stuff works flawlessly- and i'm sure with the wrong crank the eps stuff is fine for some people...but in my experience of building a bunch of campy bikes both 11 and 12 speed and trying to make weird stuff work together- i wouldn't let a bike out the door of our shop with that set up without telling the client that it was at best a B- application.

ps the mechanical stuff is somewhat more tolerant of wacky setups like this- as are bikes with small chainrings and long chain stays. the worst set ups are bikes with big chainrings (53/39) and sub 420mm stays. Those bikes eccentuate an already out of spec chainline and the results are that the bike doesn't really work in a bunch of gear combos it should work in.

[denapista]

WOW!

That paragraph is exactly the math I've been trying to figure out with my decision to go Campy 12 speed... Looks like I'll be sticking with Super Record 11 2015-2018 years.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by jerk View Post
they moved the chain line out with the 12 speed cranks to mimic the spacing of their 11speed disc brake specific crankset. with enough dikking with it you can get it work perfectly in the stand probably and maybe even out on the road if you're using small chainrings and your bike has longish chain stays. but as soon as stuff starts to wear- or if the chain gets a little mucked up- or you shift like a jerk under load pr any number of other not nice things- the bike is going to be far less likely to shift smoothly. you'll also almost certainly get some rubbing on the big chainring when the chain is on the small cog in the little cogs on the cassette and the chain will be more prone to falling off too.

it isn't the width of the rings that is the problem- although they're not correct either- it's the chainline. modern drivetrains work super well-but they are sensitive to chainline. the new campy stuff works flawlessly- and i'm sure with the wrong crank the eps stuff is fine for some people...but in my experience of building a bunch of campy bikes both 11 and 12 speed and trying to make weird stuff work together- i wouldn't let a bike out the door of our shop with that set up without telling the client that it was at best a B- application.

ps the mechanical stuff is somewhat more tolerant of wacky setups like this- as are bikes with small chainrings and long chain stays. the worst set ups are bikes with big chainrings (53/39) and sub 420mm stays. Those bikes eccentuate an already out of spec chainline and the results are that the bike doesn't really work in a bunch of gear combos it should work in.

I think this must be referring to disc brake setups. There should be less of a problem with rim brakes.

Campagnolo H11 and 12spd groups are designed to work with two different chainlines: Rim brake wheels with 130mm axles place the cassette at the traditional 43.5mm chainline; disc brake wheels with 135mm axles push the cassette outboard by 2.5mm, so the cassette is at a 46mm chainline. H11 and 12spd cranks split the difference, and place the chainrings at a 44.7mm chainline.

As in the above quote, if you use an 11spd crank with 12spd disc brake wheels, there will be a mis-match of chainlines,and while it will generally work, it won't be good as with a 12spd crank. But if you use the 11spd crank with 12spd rim brake wheels, the resulting chainline will be right in the middle of the two chainlines the 12spd group is designed to work with, so it should be work better.

A few notes about 12spd vs. 11spd cranks and chainrings: Both cranks have the same distance between chainrings; both chainrings have the same tooth width, but the 12spd inner chainring moves the teeth about .3mm closer to outer chainring - a fairly small distance. Also note that while 11spd chainrings won't fit on 12spd cranks*, 12spd chainrings will fit on 11spd cranks.

*11spd chainrings won't fit on 12spd cranks because 12spd cranks have a larger diameter "step". But the height of the "step" is essentially identical to the difference in the chainline between 11spd and 12spd cranks (1.2mm). By placing 1.2mm chainring spacers under the chainrings (placing the chainring on top of the "step"), not only will 11spd chainrings fit on 12spd cranks, but it will also restore the chainrings to the standard 11spd chainline. I've used this method to be able to use 165mm 12spd cranks on my 11spd drivetrain (Campagnolo 165mm 11spd cranks are essentially unavalable).