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  #571  
Old 12-21-2018, 07:36 PM
likebikes likebikes is offline
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Originally Posted by wallymann View Post
so much #winning i cant help but feel the joy
why winning? are you shorting the market or one of those sadists who hope for a market crash?
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  #572  
Old 12-21-2018, 08:18 PM
GregL GregL is offline
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Perhaps the hint was too subtle...
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  #573  
Old 12-22-2018, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by likebikes View Post
why winning? are you shorting the market or one of those sadists who hope for a market crash?
Nope, he's commenting on a statement in early-mid 2016 about how we're all gonna get tired of all the 'winning'...Not much right now if ya ask me...time to buy extra gas, batteries, MREs and ammo...
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  #574  
Old 12-22-2018, 09:06 AM
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…and the 2020 race starts in a few months
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  #575  
Old 12-22-2018, 10:39 AM
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wallymann wallymann is offline
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Originally Posted by GregL View Post
Perhaps the hint was too subtle...
yep.... extreme #sarcasm

I'm a value, buy and hold investor.
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  #576  
Old 12-22-2018, 11:24 AM
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veloduffer veloduffer is offline
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Originally Posted by Llewellyn View Post
There's a ton of info out there about how there's nothing to be gained by trying to time the market.

This is a terrible saying, and would be better framed to state that folks should periodically (at least annually) assess their portfolio allocation and risk tolerance.

Many Americans have not recovered from the stock losses (realized and unrealized) they incurred from the Financial Crisis. That can be disastrous if combined with a job loss, particularly if you are or near 50 yrs old. You don’t have the time horizon to recover those losses and many older folks had a hard time finding new employment, much less a job that paid as well as their previous one.

The economy is slowing and perhaps heading into a recession. Fundamentals (like shipping volumes, fixed machinery investment) are slowing; aging demographics alone will slow the economy. ‘Can you afford to lose 40% of your portfolio?’ is the question one needs to ask. And how certain is your job status and health - can you afford a large unplanned expense? How big is your rainy day fund - 6 months of living expenses?

A prime example is my in-laws’ finances. They are near 80 and in good shape (also have pension and fixed annuities), but the last two weeks of October spooked them a bit. I reviewed their investments, and they had 45% to equities (mostly high quality) based on their financial advisor’s equity strategist outlook (one of the big firms like Schwab or Merrill). I told them to reallocate to very short-term bonds to reduce the volatility to equity and interest rate movements (since the Fed is hiking), which they did. They talked to their advisor and he replied that it’s “probably a good idea”. Geez!

Equity markets are not what drives the economy - it’s the bond/credit markets. The hottest part of the market (leveraged loans) just went to $70 billion/month to zilch this month. No high yield bond issuance, either, which hasn’t happened since the financial crisis. That means companies that are not large, investment grade firms have no access to capital right now. The markets are fragile, and credit spreads (interest rate above treasuries) has increased sharply, which means new debt is much more expensive (also the new tax bill limits interest expense deduction for firms).

So one can not time the market with precision, but there is some direction to which you should prepare.

This retiring generation is the most vulnerable in history - as one must now fend for themselves with the near-extinction of pensions in the private sector. 401ks were not supposed to be full-on replacements for pensions and most folks don’t have much investment knowledge. With rising healthcare, safety nets (social security, Medicare benefits) at risk, and volatile markets, retirement is no longer “life on easy street”.






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  #577  
Old 12-22-2018, 11:41 AM
echappist echappist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veloduffer View Post
A prime example is my in-laws’ finances. They are near 80 and in good shape (also have pension and fixed annuities), but the last two weeks of October spooked them a bit. I reviewed their investments, and they had 45% to equities (mostly high quality) based on their financial advisor’s equity strategist outlook (one of the big firms like Schwab or Merrill). I told them to reallocate to very short-term bonds to reduce the volatility to equity and interest rate movements (since the Fed is hiking), which they did. They talked to their advisor and he replied that it’s “probably a good idea”. Geez!
it's stories like this that makes me distrust most financial advisors. One could understand perhaps a bit higher allocation in equities, due to the certainty of pensions and annuities, but 45% just seems excessive at that age.

One of the advice I adhere to (though I'm far from the stage in life where it's personally applicable) is "If you've won the game, stop playing." Advocating that clients nearing 80s should have 45% in equities, when the clients have other means of annual income stream, just seems careless at best and self-serving at worst. One wonders how much said "advisor" charges for AUM and for each trade.

Good on you for pointing this out to them, and the story at least has a happy ending, as they listened to your advice.

--------------------

ETA: I should add that most brokerage firm consumer-facing advisors (whose income is largely derived from asset under management fees, or AUM) don't have much more clue than the common joe. I think it was Buffett who said that he has no problem paying high fees to people who can actually make the right trades, but such people are far and few, and apparently not often found even at the hedge funds that charge 2 & 20...

There's the old joke of tourists visiting the Boston Harbor. The guide first pointed to the banker's yachts, then those of the brokers. A tourist then asked, where are the yachts of the customers? Implication here being that the yachts are bought via commissions generated from transactions, as opposed to actual acumen that would serve to benefit both those giving advice and those obtaining advice.

Last edited by echappist; 12-22-2018 at 12:09 PM.
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  #578  
Old 12-22-2018, 11:42 AM
cash05458 cash05458 is offline
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Originally Posted by oldpotatoe View Post
Nope, he's commenting on a statement in early-mid 2016 about how we're all gonna get tired of all the 'winning'...Not much right now if ya ask me...time to buy extra gas, batteries, MREs and ammo...
The above!
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  #579  
Old 12-22-2018, 07:23 PM
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MattTuck MattTuck is offline
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And now there is reporting that Powell may get the "You're fired." treatment.

I guess that is one way to ramp the stock market, just trash the dollar.
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  #580  
Old 12-23-2018, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by MattTuck View Post
And now there is reporting that Powell may get the "You're fired." treatment.

I guess that is one way to ramp the stock market, just trash the dollar.
The goats are loose..
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  #581  
Old 12-23-2018, 10:27 AM
verticaldoug verticaldoug is offline
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Originally Posted by echappist View Post

There's the old joke of tourists visiting the Boston Harbor. The guide first pointed to the banker's yachts, then those of the brokers. A tourist then asked, where are the yachts of the customers? Implication here being that the yachts are bought via commissions generated from transactions, as opposed to actual acumen that would serve to benefit both those giving advice and those obtaining advice.
It's actually a book written in 1940 by Fred Schwed 'Where are the customer yachts?' I think it is one Buffet and Bogle like to quote from... I also like Buffet's "when the tide goes out, you find out who is swimming naked."

I think the risk here with the market shutdown is since it is happening during Christmas, the market may be quiet enough thinking it will be solved before business starts in the new year. Politicians may read a quiet market as meaning a shut gov is no big deal. If the shutdown becomes prolonged and both sides dig in, it can get ugly.
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  #582  
Old 12-23-2018, 10:39 AM
OtayBW OtayBW is offline
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Originally Posted by MattTuck View Post
And now there is reporting that Powell may get the "You're fired." treatment.

I guess that is one way to ramp the stock market, just trash the dollar.
No can do on the Fed firing.
Interesting to note that those who happen to have hundreds of millions of $$ in outstanding bank debt will now pay a big premium in additional interest. Just saying...
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  #583  
Old 12-23-2018, 02:04 PM
bcroslin bcroslin is offline
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Quote:
No can do on the Fed firing.
Interesting to note that those who happen to have hundreds of millions of $$ in outstanding bank debt will now pay a big premium in additional interest. Just saying...
Fed Rate Hikes May Have Already Cost Trump $5 Million a Year
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  #584  
Old 12-23-2018, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by echappist View Post
it's stories like this that makes me distrust most financial advisors. One could understand perhaps a bit higher allocation in equities, due to the certainty of pensions and annuities, but 45% just seems excessive at that age.

One of the advice I adhere to (though I'm far from the stage in life where it's personally applicable) is "If you've won the game, stop playing." Advocating that clients nearing 80s should have 45% in equities, when the clients have other means of annual income stream, just seems careless at best and self-serving at worst. One wonders how much said "advisor" charges for AUM and for each trade.

Good on you for pointing this out to them, and the story at least has a happy ending, as they listened to your advice.

--------------------

ETA: I should add that most brokerage firm consumer-facing advisors (whose income is largely derived from asset under management fees, or AUM) don't have much more clue than the common joe. I think it was Buffett who said that he has no problem paying high fees to people who can actually make the right trades, but such people are far and few, and apparently not often found even at the hedge funds that charge 2 & 20...

There's the old joke of tourists visiting the Boston Harbor. The guide first pointed to the banker's yachts, then those of the brokers. A tourist then asked, where are the yachts of the customers? Implication here being that the yachts are bought via commissions generated from transactions, as opposed to actual acumen that would serve to benefit both those giving advice and those obtaining advice.
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  #585  
Old 12-23-2018, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OtayBW View Post
No can do on the Fed firing.
Interesting to note that those who happen to have hundreds of millions of $$ in outstanding bank debt will now pay a big premium in additional interest. Just saying...
You are right. I meant to say that Trump was allegedly asking aids if he could fire Powell. Not sure that is any better.
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