The 'Un-Official' Campagnolo Ekar thread

[thirdgenbird]

Originally Posted by phishrabbi

Anyone see any info on a possibility of adapting the Ekar group for a rim brake install?

Converting chorus shifters sounds plausible with what we know. Several people claim they are going to try it.

Hubs would be the current constraint. I have seen it quoted that the current Campagnolo/fulcrum wheels with a n3w freehub use a larger diameter ratchet (originally designed for e-bikes) and is not compatible with any of their rim brake wheelsets. I am guessing someone will eventually make a n3w freehub that can be swapped to a rim brake hub. The chain line will be off 2.5mm vs the original design. Hard to say what sort of impact that will make.

[phishrabbi]

Originally Posted by thirdgenbird

Converting chorus shifters sounds plausible with what we know. Several people claim they are going to try it.

Hubs would be the current constraint. I have seen it quoted that the current Campagnolo/fulcrum wheels with a n3w freehub use a larger diameter ratchet (originally designed for e-bikes) and is not compatible with any of their rim brake wheelsets. I am guessing someone will eventually make a n3w freehub that can be swapped to a rim brake hub. The chain line will be off 2.5mm vs the original design. Hard to say what sort of impact that will make.

I was imagining using the A rotor 13 speed cassette on a normal hg hub.

[thirdgenbird]

Originally Posted by phishrabbi

I was imagining using the A rotor 13 speed cassette on a normal hg hub.

Given Rotor uses a 12 speed chain, I doubt spacing is the same.

[hollowgram5]

Originally Posted by phishrabbi

I was imagining using the A rotor 13 speed cassette on a normal hg hub.

The Rotor cassette is designed to work with their hub, that is 3mm wider in the FHB. While it carries the same splines as other HG fhbs, I would proceed with caution.

Additionally, I can't recall where I read it but Rotor flat out states that if you wanted to run their 1x group and not change to their hubs/wheels (ex: running a regular SH11 compatible wheelset), then you are relegated to running the exact same system as 12s instead using the 12s cassette they make.

[Malarowski]

Asked Reynolds about hubs & wheels and got the following back:

N3W freehubs for ATR Black Label/i9 will be available early December. ATR and ATRx N3W freehub bodies are coming soon after but we do not have a solid ETA on when they will be available. We plan to have them available as conversion kits (yes, for any currently-produced Reynolds wheel) before they're offered on a stock wheel system.

So little bit more detail with still some TBD remaining.

[boywander]

More info on N3W freehub vs classic.

https://www.campagnolo.com/WW/en/next_3_ways

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by boywander

More info on N3W freehub vs classic.

https://www.campagnolo.com/WW/en/next_3_ways

So it looks with an axle you can put the new FHB onto older wheels. Now wonder if they will have a N3W FHB axle for QR, non disc hubs although I wonder why you would ever want to do that..convert a non disc, QR hub to 13s...

[boywander]

If I understood it correctly they said it could be converted to QR.

Sent from my LG-M322 using Tapatalk

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by boywander

If I understood it correctly they said it could be converted to QR.

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Missed that but I think the take-away is if you get a new wheel set with the new FHB ‘but’ you are still 11/12s, you can use the wheels and cogset.

Too bad shimano didn’t/hasn’t/won’t do the same thing for 12s microspline.

[Velocipede]

Originally Posted by boywander

If I understood it correctly they said it could be converted to QR.

Sent from my LG-M322 using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Missed that but I think the take-away is if you get a new wheel set with the new FHB ‘but’ you are still 11/12s, you can use the wheels and cogset.

Too bad shimano didn’t/hasn’t/won’t do the same thing for 12s microspline.

The new N3W system, they are making a freehub body for older style ratchet systems. It's a smaller diameter with fewer teeth than the one on the Shamal Carbon Disc wheels which was designed to be used on the EKAR kits. But you would be able to buy an older pre-2020 freehub body in N3W and put it on a disc OR non-disc wheel. So yes, a Zonda Disc or Zonda Rim COULD get an N3W. But you would be limited in the rim brakes. Other than an older Magura HS22/33 or a Rotor Delta, you're out of luck. And the Rotor Delta brakes absolutely suck. So many issues with those. They look really cool but even the Rotor Rep had issues with the set we put on a bike for a Bicycling Magazine review. They never even reviewed the group it was so bad.

[boywander]

What neat about campag is the freehub body has not changed when they advanced with more cogs up to this point.

Campagnolo designed the N3W freehub shorter than the current to accommodate the 9&10T cogs. New campag wheels with come with n3w (cassettes >11T can retrofit with an adapter).

[morrisond]

Does anyone know if the retrofit hub kit would work on the 32 Hole Record Non-disc Hub?

This one https://www.bike-components.de/en/Ca...el-Hub-p14678/

I am contemplating converting 12S Mechanical Rim Brake Disc Shifters to 13S (if the guts will fit) and using EKAR Chain, Cassette and RD.

It's for a Rando bike on which I am going to use Centrepull brakes.

[Velocipede]

Originally Posted by morrisond

Does anyone know if the retrofit hub kit would work on the 32 Hole Record Non-disc Hub?

This one https://www.bike-components.de/en/Ca...el-Hub-p14678/

I am contemplating converting 12S Mechanical Rim Brake Disc Shifters to 13S (if the guts will fit) and using EKAR Chain, Cassette and RD.

It's for a Rando bike on which I am going to use Centrepull brakes.

Yes.
But you will have a problem with the brakes since the EKAR brakes are hydraulic disc and there are no hydro rim brakes other than the Rotor Deltas you could use. And I'm not even sure those will work. Never tried them. And they are pretty garbage brakes.

[morrisond]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

Yes.

Thank you - have you heard yet whether or not it's possible to replace the guts of an 12S shifter with EKAR guts? If yes can you use the 12S thumb shifter?

[hollowgram5]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

Yes.
But you will have a problem with the brakes since the EKAR brakes are hydraulic disc and there are no hydro rim brakes other than the Rotor Deltas you could use. And I'm not even sure those will work. Never tried them. And they are pretty garbage brakes.

This is the solution that I'd come up with (and eluded to in earlier posts on this thread), considering internally the disc calipers are the same as Magura MT8 and MT6 models and use the same pads, which is what Rotor uses for their disc calipers. Additionally, one would want to use the Rotor version of the Rim Caliper because it has a brake release mechanism to allow install/removal of the tire vs the Magura RT models which has that mechanism built into the brake lever.

I had considered doing this if I'd ended up with a spare H11 group, which I almost did. The Rotor calipers are harder to find but there's some sets out there.

I am sure it would work, as its a modern pressure style system vs the HS33 stuff which my understanding was used different system pressures vs the current stuff. Would a Cantilever post mounted hydraulic rim brake and modern shifting system be really cool? Yes I think it would.

I had found a gent selling a Hydraulic Rim brake di2 bike a couple years back using the Magura calipers, and he said they were mighty powerful, but that wheel removal was an issue when the tire was inflated.