The 'Un-Official' Campagnolo Ekar thread - Page 31

Velocipede · #**451** 10-22-2020, 05:29 PM

I'm just gonna say this, if you get my thread on EKAR locked, you might find a bag of flaming poo on your front porch. LOL!! This thread was was supposed to be informative, not argumentative.

Play nice everyone.

martl · #**452** 10-22-2020, 06:48 PM

I just checked Ekar consumable part prices. 259 for a cassette.,seriously?

joevers · #**453** 10-22-2020, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martl

I just checked Ekar consumable part prices. 259 for a cassette.,seriously?

Heh. Check out Eagle cassettes, Dura Ace/XTR, or Super Record 11. They make 259$ look cheap.

Ditto for the chains.

Dave · #**454** 10-22-2020, 07:05 PM

The current Chorus 12 RD will already work perfectly with a 10-36 SRAM cassette. No help is needed, just a 1 inch longer chain.

You could certainly try coupling an Ekar shifter to a Chorus RD to see if it would shift a 13 speed cassette, but I'll bet it won't work, just due to the different actuation ratio on the Chorus RD.

When 11 speed first came out, one of the first things I did was try an 11 speed shifter with my old 10 speed RD. With no chain attached, the RD ended up about half way in between the largest two sprockets after 10 shifts, proving that it had a different actuation ratio.

Those who want to try such experiments can do so with their own money and report the results. Speculating is a waste of time.

barnabyjones · #**455** 10-22-2020, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velocipede

I'm just gonna say this, if you get my thread on EKAR locked, you might find a bag of flaming poo on your front porch. LOL!! This thread was was supposed to be informative, not argumentative.

Play nice everyone.

Weight Weenies, I mean Paceline!, is my favorite bike forum.

hollowgram5 · #**456** 10-22-2020, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velocipede

I'm just gonna say this, if you get my thread on EKAR locked, you might find a bag of flaming poo on your front porch. LOL!! This thread was was supposed to be informative, not argumentative.

Play nice everyone.

Don't get it on your boots! (Insert Billy Madison GIF here)

sokyroadie · #**457** 10-22-2020, 08:46 PM

My Ekar group and Shamal wheels are languishing in CO waiting for my frameset to arrive from Italy, it shipped a month ago.

saab2000 · #**458** 10-22-2020, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martl

I just checked Ekar consumable part prices. 259 for a cassette.,seriously?

That’s not horrible in 2020 and given that you’ll likely use all the gears it should last a long time. Keep it clean, change the chain periodically and be happy.

morrisond · #**459** 10-22-2020, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave

The current Chorus 12 RD will already work perfectly with a 10-36 SRAM cassette. No help is needed, just a 1 inch longer chain.

You could certainly try coupling an Ekar shifter to a Chorus RD to see if it would shift a 13 speed cassette, but I'll bet it won't work, just due to the different actuation ratio on the Chorus RD.

When 11 speed first came out, one of the first things I did was try an 11 speed shifter with my old 10 speed RD. With no chain attached, the RD ended up about half way in between the largest two sprockets after 10 shifts, proving that it had a different actuation ratio.

Those who want to try such experiments can do so with their own money and report the results. Speculating is a waste of time.

i don't want to waste my money - that's why I'm hoping someone else will try it - which if you already have EKAR won't really cost anything if you have a 12sp derailleur as well.

I think we are going to see 2x13 pretty soon. However I'm now kind of sold on 1x13.

BTW - If you look at the weight savings from Chorus to SR - on the shifters, crank and RD it's about 170-180 grams.

Super EKAR could be that much lighter plus use Aluminum rubbed discs for another 68 grams of savings.

It could be 1/2 lb lighter if they ever release it.

R3awak3n · #**460** 10-22-2020, 09:33 PM

If ekar is sucessful they will probably release a higher end more carbon version.

thirdgenbird · #**461** 10-22-2020, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morrisond

Sorry for the crack at you. I was getting frustrated.

People are making assumptions that it is cantilevered over the rear hub. Edit - yes according to Weenies 12s is slightly Cantilevered as well.

It may be or it may not - has anyone actually measured it? Given that we know the chain is .15mm thinner (actually according to this article it's .25mm skinnier - which gives you back 3mm https://cyclingmagazine.ca/gravel/ne...et-7-features/) it may not be or just ever so slightly over 12S.

That should be in the realm of the adjustability range on a current 2x12 rear derailleur.

I appreciate the apology. No reason to get frustrated. I am happy to converse if it’s welcome. I fully admit my comments are speculation and it wouldn’t hurt my feelings if they are incorrect.

Yes, 11 and 12 are both cantilevered but the rear of an ekar cassette looks more so. That could be an issue. I also could be wrong. Even on 10spd setups, the derailleur would get very close to the spokes on some hubs. This is one of the reasons Chris King abandoned their Campagnolo freehub. There was not enough clearance to accommodate the 12spd cassette. If 13 is any wider, then it could create further issue. Cog size and spoke bracing angle are limiting factors on several current drivetrains. Remember, it’s not just the cog itself. It’s the derailleur cage. Larger cogs create more room for the derailleur cage due to spoke angle.

I apologize if it feels like I am taking you out of context. It’s not my intent at all. Bicycle drivetrains are pretty complex, you can’t look at just a few variables in a vacuum, the whole system needs to be considered. Eliminating the front derailleur removes a lot of them. Forget 2x13. I vote wider hubs and 1x15 if the chain can take the angle.

I am here for fun and friendly conversation. I did what you are suggesting with 10 speed years ago. My 10 speed bike has alloy record levers with pointy hoods.

bumknees · #**462** 10-22-2020, 10:41 PM

All of this has been very informative and fun (except that weird bashguard thing from last week or so). I’m looking forward to trying Ekar out!

Velocipede · #**463** 10-22-2020, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bumknees

All of this has been very informative and fun (except that weird bashguard thing from last week or so). I’m looking forward to trying Ekar out!

Oh man did we get a laugh about that! Campy NA had no clue that was going on. When they saw it, the reaction was priceless. Seriously.

nighthawk · #**464** 10-22-2020, 11:04 PM

This is the best photo I could find showing the degree to which the larger cogs are cantilevered.

thirdgenbird · #**465** 10-22-2020, 11:23 PM

It appears the carrier itself is concave and then the cogs bolted to the carrier are clearly cantilevered over the carrier.

For what it’s worth, I’ve got 4mm clearance between my chorus 12 derailleur cage (set for a 34t) and the spokes on my Campagnolo wheel with straight pull spokes. Prior experience tells me a dt swiss hub with a traditional flange provided less clearance than this wheel but I no longer have it to measure. If the ekar cassette is 1mm wider and that dt hub had 1mm less clearance, we are all the way down to 2mm. How close is too close?

It should be noted this is with a 130mm hub. 135mm hubs move the cassette out 2.5mm and while the freehub doesn’t get longer, spoke angle changes and clearance is added. How much? I’m not sure.