OT - Dow plunges 1,175 - worst point decline in history

[Ozz]

Originally Posted by echappist

I don’t know if you recall, but we had a post to a nytimes story that sounded quite a bit like what you wrote (think this was in late Oct)

Yes, sadly, I don't believe it is an uncommon story....

[fiamme red]

Originally Posted by echappist

I don’t know if you recall, but we had a post to a nytimes story that sounded quite a bit like what you wrote (think this was in late Oct)

This one?

His Body Was Behind the Wheel for a Week Before It Was Discovered. This Was His Life.

[GregL]

Originally Posted by Lewis Moon

A good friend of mine once said "never make something you love your vocation, because then it's a job".

I heard the same thing from two very experienced, non-professional pilots I knew. Both had a few thousand hours and enjoyed flight instructing. Both had good careers away from aviation. When I asked one of them why he never flew professionally, he replied "...because I love it (flying) too much."

I loved flying, and felt an almost painful longing when I left the business. But there was no way I could stomach the lunacy of the airline business. The model at the time (mid-1990s) was that all the airlines were gong bankrupt, but whoever went bankrupt last won. Everyone from pilots to ramp personnel felt the pain. Lost jobs, lower wages, pensions wiped out, and longer working hours. What's not to like?!?

Greg

[Mzilliox]

Originally Posted by fa63

I think this extends to other industries as well. Younger candidates (not necessarily straight out of school) being hired are generally well-qualified; companies can get 90% of the talent for 50-60% of the price, and there are few instances where that extra 10% talent would be needed (though perhaps the airline industry is not a good example for that). Which raises the question like flydhest raised: should older employees be offered the job at the lower price point, or if they are higher-paid already, should they be asked to take a pay/hour cut to keep their job? I can see myself going for the latter; for example, work 3 days/24 hours a week for 60% of the pay. That way I still have a job, and the company does not lose the knowledge I have. Then again I realize many may not be able to afford taking a 40% pay cut.

That also opens up another can of worms; how old is too old? At what age do you ask people to go part-time/take a pay cut?

Maybe the reality of the work force is that jobs in general are actually not that hard or that specialized, and most any educated person can handle most any job? because how else could a kid fresh out of college do as well or better than someone with experience? when i was looking for work, it was the opposite, maybe 15-20 years ago. companies only wanted people with 5 years experience or more. of course they wanted to pay entry level wages to these experienced folks, but sheesh.

i think companies are not very efficient anymore and make all kinds of massive labor/hiring mistakes. CEOs who hire lots of consultants to me seem a total waste on the company. if you are the ceo, you should know better how to run your company than an outsider who gets paid less than you, or where is your value? I think companies stopped looking for real talent the minute job applications went electronic.

[Waldo]

The less the markets listen to Agent Orange, the better off they will be.

[azrider]

Originally Posted by GregL

I heard the same thing from two very experienced, non-professional pilots I knew. Both had a few thousand hours and enjoyed flight instructing. Both had good careers away from aviation. When I asked one of them why he never flew professionally, he replied "...because I love it (flying) too much."

I loved flying, and felt an almost painful longing when I left the business. But there was no way I could stomach the lunacy of the airline business. The model at the time (mid-1990s) was that all the airlines were gong bankrupt, but whoever went bankrupt last won. Everyone from pilots to ramp personnel felt the pain. Lost jobs, lower wages, pensions wiped out, and longer working hours. What's not to like?!?

Greg

And now there is a pending Pilot shortage that could wreak havoc....

[seanile]

Originally Posted by Mzilliox

when i was looking for work, it was the opposite, maybe 15-20 years ago. companies only wanted people with 5 years experience or more. of course they wanted to pay entry level wages to these experienced folks, but sheesh.

trust me, this is still very much the case

[GregL]

Originally Posted by Ozz

I have an acquaintance (kids went to school together) that was living large during "dot com" boom in the tech industry...big house, pricey ZIP code, etc...bubble burst and he refused to take a job that paid less.....this went on for 10+yrs.

His ego (and probably some mental health issues) cost him his marriage, house, and his relationship with his kids. Drugs, alcohol, arrests, virtually homeless soon followed.

Luckily his ex-wife found a solid guy and the kids are all good....

It was very sad to see this happen to a guy that had everything going for him but refused to accept his situation.

I've seen similar instances with friends and relatives. Unwilling to take a lower-paying or less prestigious job. I could never understand the mindset. The bills won't pay themselves. I've taken one lower salary job (early '90s recession) and two lateral moves (poorly managed companies that ultimately went under or were bought out) in my career. I swallowed my pride to ensure continued employment and a chance for a brighter future. Couldn't imagine sitting home and watching my savings disappear, going into debt, bankruptcy, or all three.

Greg

[joosttx]

Originally Posted by seanile

trust me, this is still very much the case

If you got something to offer you will be hired. The issue for older workers is kinda like the issue for younger workers. They think money should be handed to them bc they got a college degree or worker 15 years at the same middle management position never learning much more.

What I coached people about being hireable is 3 things.

1) have excellent network
2) never stop learning or pushing yourself

And for the older one

3) stay fit and healthy


All this rumbling in the market is about end of the year tax prepping.

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by azrider

And now there is a pending Pilot shortage that could wreak havoc....

It can be a good career and it can be a very, very crappy one. I've had decent success but not without a price to pay.

I'm not sure I can recommend it though given the incredible uncertainty and inconsistency of the airline industry.

Get on early with a stable company and it will be a great career. Ask the Pan Am and TWA and Eastern pilots how it worked out for them. Those were A+ jobs and then suddenly they were gone. The industry is more stable today but there's no guarantee it will stay that way. I just hope I can finish my career without another huge disruption. I'm on my fourth airline and hopefully my final one.

[kevinvc]

When my wife tried to re-enter the labor market after raising our kids, it was nearly impossible to even get an interview, much less an offer. She was in her 40's and had previously held pretty high level positions. She was not looking for a similar level of responsibility because she didn't want the long work hours and needed scheduling flexibility.

Even after directly addressing her situation, she was repeatedly told that she was over-qualified for the positions she was applying for. They often told her that they were concerned that she would be bored with a lower level job or that they were concerned that she would leave as soon as she found something better.

This went on for close to 5 years before she got hired, and that was only because of a personal connection with the organization. After hiring her they told her that they wouldn't have even called her for an interview without her friend's help.

[verticaldoug]

I feel like this thread has turned into a episode of The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by verticaldoug

I feel like this thread has turned into a episode of The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel

Yeah, it's definitely gone off the rails. The stock market turmoil continues unabated. Another 1%-2% dive again today.

[verticaldoug]

Originally Posted by saab2000

Yeah, it's definitely gone off the rails. The stock market turmoil continues unabated. Another 1%-2% dive again today.

The bad stuff hasn't even started yet.

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by verticaldoug

The bad stuff hasn't even started yet.

What do you suppose is going to happen? Other than the volatility, this kind of correction was pretty much expected. The outsized growth of the past decade wasn't likely to be sustainable. I am no economics or finance expert but many, many people were saying equities were wildly overvalued for the past several years.