Moots Carbon Gravel E-bike!

[benb]

Originally Posted by 2000CSI

I know plenty of people who would not be able to ride due to minor health issues that would not be able to ride at all without an e-bike. Rather have them ride than not.
If carbon, like the article says would be hard to make an e-bike without using carbon.

We bandy this around but is there actually much of a market for $10,000 gravel eBikes needed to ride 100+ miles by riders who were strong riders and who now have some health problem and can't keep up with their friends but yet are still hugely demanding of going on a 100 mile gravel ride?

People with health issues don't really go on 100 mile rides on gas powered dirt bikes very often either. (That's actually really tiring too!)

I am really curious if the market for this is actually motorcyclists. The entire motorcycle industry is basically based on their being a big market of people who enjoy big rides on 2 wheels and have never had any interest in the amount of physical work it takes to do huge rides on a bicycle. There are even lots of people who do enjoy bicycling a lot but still don't want to or can't put that work in all the time.

There is still the problem that if that's actually who might want to buy this that this bike is more expensive than a lot of the street legal dual sport motorcycles though?

Realistically the real problem with this is it's a $10,000 carbon bike branded moots that is not manufactured by Moots. It's really stepping out of their core brand values.

FWIW a whole bunch of the people I've met locally who have bought fancy eBikes are actually coming more from motorcycling. They haven't been buying eBikes that identify as road/gravel bikes though. They basically don't go for drop bars since motorcycles don't have them. And actually I bet I see 500 flat bar eBikes for every drop bar eBike I've seen in the wild. I could probably count on one hand how many drop bar eBikes I've seen.

[FriarQuade]

Originally Posted by Nomadmax

I got one thing to say, 10 grand. Nope.

This thing is actually surprisingly reasonably priced for e bikes from legacy bike brands. Look at any of the enthusiast e bike pricing from any bike brand and they're all $8500 to $15,000. If they would have made it from Ti, it would have been 20k!

[Likes2ridefar]

It seems they finally conceded metal is inferior to carbon for some or many types of bikes

[buddybikes]

Originally Posted by unterhausen

I'm not really attuned to the "old wealthy rider who wants to keep up on group gravel rides without training much" market. I don't think it exists in this area, so possibly good prospects for growth?

there are those of us on this forum who's body's have broken down. We still enjoy riding, and not those hybrid style 50lb behemoths. Call me rich, I call myself someone who has survived 57 years of chronic illness and cycling has been my savior for health and well being. Would like to extend this bit longer

Do I think this machine is right, who knows. I would have loved a FF but 2.5yr waiting list at my age put that to rest.

I got a CUSTOM Alchemy (look in custom bike section) no force fitting, for less than what this Asian Moots offers.

[benb]

Originally Posted by buddybikes

there are those of us on this forum who's body's have broken down. We still enjoy riding, and not those hybrid style 50lb behemoths. Call me rich, I call myself someone who has survived 57 years of chronic illness and cycling has been my savior for health and well being. Would like to extend this bit longer

Do I think this machine is right, who knows. I would have loved a FF but 2.5yr waiting list at my age put that to rest.

I got a CUSTOM Alchemy (look in custom bike section) no force fitting, for less than what this Asian Moots offers.

I think the thing for me in terms of what is breaking down as I get older is that none of it will be helped by an eBike.

If my shoulders and/or wrists are what is saying no to a 100 mile dirt/gravel ride as I get older adding a motor doesn't really do much to help.

When I was motorcycling I used to go on plenty of group rides that age ranges spanning right from 20-something to 70-something on a regular basis. But it wasn't like the 70 year olds needed some kind of assist. It was just that those rides are/were much more cognizant of the fact that the ride was not a race. Everybody had a bike that would let them ride fast enough to get killed or kill someone. Skill (and the law) dictates the pace, not age or fitness. Slowing down the group bicycle ride and being more courteous of all riders on the ride might be a better solution than powered assist for some people. But obviously that is not how roadies function.

If I'm on a bike with a motor I have no interest in drafting anyone ever. Cause drafting is really freaking dangerous. Nobody drafts on motorcycles. We just have convinced ourselves in road riding that it's OK.

People who have knee & back issues, etc??? They hurt riding motorcycles just like bicycles.

[EB]

Get a Santa Cruz Skitch instead.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by benb

I am really curious if the market for this is actually motorcyclists.

As a Class 3 e-bike, in some jurisdictions (like my home state of Massachusetts) this bike is classified as a motorcycle or motor scooter. To be ridden on public roads, the bike must be registered and the rider must have a license. (Which is not to say that all riders follow the law - I've seen several un-registered Class 3 e-bikes on the streets here.)

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by benb

If I'm on a bike with a motor I have no interest in drafting anyone ever. Cause drafting is really freaking dangerous. Nobody drafts on motorcycles. We just have convinced ourselves in road riding that it's OK.

Cyclists typically travel at lower speeds than motorcyclists, and their vehicles are lighter. Most cyclists only hit motorcyle type speeds on downhills, at which point many (if not most) cyclists allow much arger spacing between riders than when drafting at lower speeds.

[redir]

I get it. When people who have cycled all their lived get older and have health problems they still want to go out and have a nice fun bike ride. But if you cycle for fitness and health then why would you want a motorbike? I can understand the person who just wants an easy ride to go out and have fun though. And yeah now that people have brought up motorcyclists it makes more sense that they would be in that market.

I'm getting older now. I don't race bikes anymore outside the occasional MTB or local cross race but I ride my bike to work why? Because of fitness and health. Living in a college town I get passed on the bike paths by kids half my age on electric bikes, scooters, wheels and so on. That's not why I am in it and growing up all my life it seems bikes were sold and purchased by people who wanted to ride for fun and fitness. Again I get the e-bike thing for fun but not for health and fitness.

So Moots has got me confused on this decision.

[Spdntrxi]

The e-bike is amazing for recovery rides. I get to stay in Z1/Z2 and go places I like, rather then stay on the boring flat roads.

I also run a ton of errands with it as I have panniers. No opinion on the moots specifically, I have a Pivot E-Vault which I got for less then half of that moots.

[Jaybee]

Originally Posted by Eli Bingham

Get a Santa Cruz Skitch instead.

But why would I want to save $3,000, use the proven Stigmata gravel geometry, and get an actual 2023 groupset at the same time?

[Matthew]

Just me, or are Moots threads starting to look like Serotta threads? Sorry for the potential derail. Carry on.

[Burnette]

I totally get it. It's been a few years of the bike now for me and going by the LBS, I was surprised to see si many E bikes. But it makes sense.

The majority of people don't enjoy bikes in the same way as intense bike enthusiasts do.

Years ago I asked three LBS what they're most popular sellers were and it was hybrid bikes used for local trails, bike paths and around the neighborhood.

I live in the foothills of NC and getting in shape to handle 8% rollers and a few 12 and 15% grades in the road can be challenging. I personally enjoy the journey back to fitness and riding long miles.

Most people who ride casually would find it intimidating and/or don't have the time or interest to do the work to make it easy to do.

I'm all for inclusion, a bigger cycling community is good for us all as we face laws and taxes that can hinder our participation in the hobby/sport we love.

It's smart for Moots to offer this. You get riders whose fitness level isn't high, either through age, physical condition or lack of interest in training on your bikes. You also get novice riders who may enjoy the activity enough to want a traditional non powered bike, you open opportunities for future sales.

It's good business

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by Waldo62

I say go ahead and give in to the impulse to crap on it.

Quotes taken directly from the current Moots web page:

OUR MISSION:
TO FOSTER A TRUE, LIFE-LONG RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN BIKE, RIDER AND ROUTE BY CREATING THE HIGHEST-QUALITY TITANIUM FRAME BIKES ON THE PLANET.

Quality design, quality tubing, quality craftspeople and quality processes equal the best made frame you can buy. Our long-term dedication to one material, Titanium, has provided Moots with a level of experience designing, building and riding every style of bike over the past 40 years.

The perfect size company to make the best Titanium bikes in the world-

30 years of nothing but Titanium – 40 years of bike manufacturing. The crew at Moots knows Ti and knows bikes. The years of cumulative experience in the building gets used every day to make the product better

Never stop moving forward. As a team we build Titanium bikes because we believe in what we do. The challenges we embrace are to improve what we do and how we do it and to never stop moving forward.

OUR TEAM
MOOTS has spent 40 years handcrafting top-tier bikes – 30 working with only titanium. The diversity of our specialists’ skills elevate our products beyond what any one perspective could.

Since 1981, we’ve been relentlessly focused on craftsmanship, giving us a deeply rooted expertise on titanium and what it takes to give you the best experience possible.

Hand-crafted in Steamboat Springs, CO
The epicenter of gravel riding – designed to go anywhere.

We don't need to crap on it, since Moots themselves are already doing a good job at that.

[benb]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

Cyclists typically travel at lower speeds than motorcyclists, and their vehicles are lighter. Most cyclists only hit motorcyle type speeds on downhills, at which point many (if not most) cyclists allow much arger spacing between riders than when drafting at lower speeds.

Again we've just convinced ourselves it's OK.

Obviously I've been riding in packs for decades. Crashes happen more often and with more serious consequences when we ride in tight packs.

All those big pileups we see in races.. they would almost always be single rider crashes if the riders weren't in a pack.

You step outside our bubble and people think we're nuts. Even MTB riders.

I've had one road crash where I got hit by a car. Every other crash I have had was caused by being in a group pileup. I have never had a solo road group crash personally.