OT - Ohtani's 50/50

[ColonelJLloyd]

Originally Posted by benb

Baseball has foundational issues way below the level of what is entertaining on TV. To a certain extent people aren't watching it cause their community/culture is less represented in it. Or they grew up playing soccer & basketball & football, so that's what they watch, and that's what they put their kids in, so that's what their kids want to watch.

It's become productized the same way as every other sport, it's become more expensive/elite and less people play it from childhood up in the US across a wide range of backgrounds.

- Equipment costs up right from the bottom
- Decimation of funding for public fields/programs
- Suburban player flight into expensive ($$$$) private club programs
- Less kids from diverse backgrounds play today, and it's been that way for a couple generations to the the point it's changed the pro game already.

MLB has had this push for a long time now to bring in players from outside the US partly because African American players disappeared and left a vacuum... MLB is now trying to help prop programs back up so they return.

Well said.

[Xrslug]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

So, why the interpreter?

From what I have read he is more comfortable speaking to the media, in particular, through an interpreter. Which I can’t fault him for.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Originally Posted by jlwdm

Or he might be the best. He was an excellent pitcher, hit for average and hit way more home runs than other home run hitters of his era.

He clearly was special.

Jeff

Emphasis mine. He was great, obviously. It's a different environment now. The pitching is so much better and no hitter now gets to see a pitcher four of five PAs as Ruth did.

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

Interesting argument. You’re probably right about Ruth. But where do you draw the line? Is Ted Williams no longer the best “pure” hitter the game has ever seen? Is Willie Mays no longer the greatest player, period?

I think Williams and Mays could hang in today's MLB in a way that Ruth could not.

[ColonelJLloyd]

dupe

[verticaldoug]

I am a bit surprised by some of the shohei hate. I think it is out of ignorance since you are casting Shohei in the same block as US athletes, and I think he is wired quite a bit differently.

1. He is a lot like Babe Ruth in that if you watch him on the field, he is just a big kid enjoying the game of baseball. I see a joy in his play you don't see in other players.

2. In Japan, high school baseball is almost like religion culminating every year with the summer national tournament (Koshien). He was brought up in a high school system geared for this. He lives, and breathes baseball.

3. He has a large contract, but was smart enough to know he needs teammates to win. His contract is backloaded with a really long payout over time with most of the earnings probably coming after he retires. The dodgers have mortgaged their future to win now. (It's another reason the contract seems so large because of the time value of money for the future payouts. I actually think his contract short changes him a bit on these lines)

4. The translator, Ippei Mizuhara, who gambled $16mm away will go to jail. I was skeptical at first, but believe Shohei wasn't gambling.

5. Japan has 135mm people. Shohei is everywhere in Japan. His exploits are on the nightly news every night in Japan even before his 50/50 chase. If he ran for Prime Minister, he'd win. He will have no shortage of post career opportunities. However, he just may retired and go live quietly somewhere with his wife and children in the Japanese countryside. How nice of a dream is that?

6. His wife is an ex-athlete, shy and not posting swimsuit photos on instagram demanding attention. So refreshing

7. Hugo Boss lined his jacket for an awards event with photos of his pet dog.

8. Okay, he bought a porsche. But no one is perfect. (and that may have been the influence of the translator)

There doesn't seem to be a lot of reasons to hate the guy, and I find it refreshing we have someone that at least seems like a standup guy so far.


FWIW, the 'running back' was Tyreek Hill, he is a wide receiver. Athletes actually have names and are not pieces of meat.

[Mr. Pink]

This is why I'm so cynical about modern pro sports, except cycling and probably golf, because those guys have to work so hard for it.

https://vault.si.com/vault/2009/03/2...letes-go-broke

I worked for that magazine for ten years, and watched all that money explode into baseball, football, and basketball. And it hasn't improved the games at all, just made it ridiculously expensive to follow them. Now the NFL draft is a nationally televised event, and winter baseball free agent deals are followed religiously. And it's kind of a sad cliche over and over when these guys are found ten years after their Show shut down, somehow trying to be an adult at age 45.
Nobody is worth 700 million for playing a game, unless you pay them, and that's why I boycott most sports. I'm not paying them.
Sorry about that running back/receiver thing. I don't follow the NFL. Fall Sundays are the best time to bike. I'm convinced that football is a big reason behind America's obesity problem. But, if the weather sucks, I'll crack a brew and root for the home team. There's always a party going on on Sunday.

[Elefantino]

[QUOTE=XXtwindad;3424847]

Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd

Is Ted Williams no longer the best “pure” hitter the game has ever seen? Is Willie Mays no longer the greatest player, period?

Obv, in any sport it's hard to measure eras. Is Aroldis Chapman faster than Bob Feller or Nolan Ryan? Probably not. (Ryan's 100.8 was clocked just in front of the plate, not at the release, as pitches are today. And Feller stood in front of a rudimentary radar and threw one pitch at 117!) But as a group today's MLB pitchers are a good 5-6 mph faster on average than they were even 20 years ago. Could Mays hit today? His fastest rivals were arguably Gibson and Koufax, each of which threw in the estimated mid-90s. He batted .196 against Gibby and .278 against Koufax. Williams? He owned Feller, the fastest pitcher in his era, hitting .364 against him. So, a mixed bag.

Aside: The greatest hitter I (as a former baseball writer) ever saw was, no question, Tony Gwynn. Not even close. Also the nicest human ever.

[jm714]

Arte Moreno is the real Doyer MVP

[ColonelJLloyd]

Originally Posted by Elefantino

Obv, in any sport it's hard to measure eras. Is Aroldis Chapman faster than Bob Feller or Nolan Ryan? Probably not. (Ryan's 100.8 was clocked just in front of the plate, not at the release, as pitches are today. And Feller stood in front of a rudimentary radar and threw one pitch at 117!) But as a group today's MLB pitchers are a good 5-6 mph faster on average than they were even 20 years ago. Could Mays hit today? His fastest rivals were arguably Gibson and Koufax, each of which threw in the estimated mid-90s. He batted .196 against Gibby and .278 against Koufax. Williams? He owned Feller, the fastest pitcher in his era, hitting .364 against him. So, a mixed bag.

Aside: The greatest hitter I (as a former baseball writer) ever saw was, no question, Tony Gwynn. Not even close. Also the nicest human ever.

That quoted question was XXtwindad not me, but I'm with you. Tony Gwynn was insanely skilled at hitting baseballs (and not striking out). Remarkable.

The increased velocity of today's pitchers relative to generations past is one factor, but they also get lots more movement.

[cgolvin]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

Nobody is worth 700 million for playing a game, unless you pay them.

Paying for something is the definition of its worth. I don't think any CEO is worth tens of millions of dollars but the fact that shareholders approve those pay packages means they are, by definition, worth it.

Originally Posted by Elefantino

Aside: The greatest hitter I (as a former baseball writer) ever saw was, no question, Tony Gwynn. Not even close. Also the nicest human ever.

What continues to surprise me is that one name is rarely mentioned in 'greatest hitter' discussions: Yogi Berra (I realize that his playing days almost certainly preceded your stint as a writer). Seasons with 600+ PAs and fewer than 30 Ks, hitting for power and average, while playing the most demanding position, amazing. Also, from what I've heard, a very nice human.

[wc1934]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

This is why I'm so cynical about modern pro sports, except cycling and probably golf, because those guys have to work so hard for it.

https://vault.si.com/vault/2009/03/2...letes-go-broke

I worked for that magazine for ten years, and watched all that money explode into baseball, football, and basketball. And it hasn't improved the games at all, just made it ridiculously expensive to follow them. Now the NFL draft is a nationally televised event, and winter baseball free agent deals are followed religiously. And it's kind of a sad cliche over and over when these guys are found ten years after their Show shut down, somehow trying to be an adult at age 45.
Nobody is worth 700 million for playing a game, unless you pay them, and that's why I boycott most sports. I'm not paying them.
Sorry about that running back/receiver thing. I don't follow the NFL. Fall Sundays are the best time to bike. I'm convinced that football is a big reason behind America's obesity problem. But, if the weather sucks, I'll crack a brew and root for the home team. There's always a party going on on Sunday.

Are you basing your opinions - quoting something written almost a quarter of a century ago? Yikes!!!

[Mr. Pink]

Originally Posted by wc1934

Are you basing your opinions - quoting something written almost a quarter of a century ago? Yikes!!!

The only thing that has changed is that the numbers just inflated, year to year, to, you know, 700 million. The billion dollar baseball player is soon upon us.

[Elefantino]

Originally Posted by cgolvin

What continues to surprise me is that one name is rarely mentioned in 'greatest hitter' discussions: Yogi Berra (I realize that his playing days almost certainly preceded your stint as a writer). Seasons with 600+ PAs and fewer than 30 Ks, hitting for power and average, while playing the most demanding position, amazing. Also, from what I've heard, a very nice human.

The documentary "It Ain't Over" shows just how underrated Berra was. An incredible hitter and the glue of the 1950s Yankees. From 1950 through 1956, he never finished lower than 4th in the MVP voting and won it three times. The years he finished second ('53 to Rosen, '56 to Mantle) it was to two of the greatest single seasons in the modern era.

And yes, his playing days ended 16 years before I covered my first game.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by cgolvin

Paying for something is the definition of its worth. I don't think any CEO is worth tens of millions of dollars but the fact that shareholders approve those pay packages means they are, by definition, worth it.



What continues to surprise me is that one name is rarely mentioned in 'greatest hitter' discussions: Yogi Berra (I realize that his playing days almost certainly preceded your stint as a writer). Seasons with 600+ PAs and fewer than 30 Ks, hitting for power and average, while playing the most demanding position, amazing. Also, from what I've heard, a very nice human.

Noted. A little research showed the greatest K/HR ratio of all-time was (in order) DiMaggio, Berra, and Williams. The only modern players with a 3:1 ratio: Pujols, Bonds, and Brett. *

https://www.statmuse.com/mlb/ask/few...er-with-300-hr

* I think. If I’m wrong, let me know.

Oops. Just got corrected by cgolvin. At least my grammar was precise. I think…

“Uh, what happened to Chuck Klein, Johnny Mike, Rogers Hornsby, and Stan the Man in your list? And are Moises Alou, Albert Belle, Vlad not “modern day” players? They all have a lower ratio than Brett (I don’t see either Bonds or Pujols on that stat list you linked)”

[XXtwindad]

[QUOTE=Elefantino;3425090]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

Obv, in any sport it's hard to measure eras. Is Aroldis Chapman faster than Bob Feller or Nolan Ryan? Probably not. (Ryan's 100.8 was clocked just in front of the plate, not at the release, as pitches are today. And Feller stood in front of a rudimentary radar and threw one pitch at 117!) But as a group today's MLB pitchers are a good 5-6 mph faster on average than they were even 20 years ago. Could Mays hit today? His fastest rivals were arguably Gibson and Koufax, each of which threw in the estimated mid-90s. He batted .196 against Gibby and .278 against Koufax. Williams? He owned Feller, the fastest pitcher in his era, hitting .364 against him. So, a mixed bag.

Aside: The greatest hitter I (as a former baseball writer) ever saw was, no question, Tony Gwynn. Not even close. Also the nicest human ever.

Smart post.