OT: 2024-2025 Football/ Soccer/ Fußball/ Calcio /Futbol Thread

[JedB]

Originally Posted by goonster

Manchester United have spent over £1.6 billion since Sir Alex Ferguson retired in 2013, and that's an incredible amount of money to spend with so little to show for it.

I think McGuire leads in own goals...

[goonster]

Originally Posted by echappist

it's likely that the ramification of his greediness will saddle the club (pun intended) will all sorts of negative implications for years to come.

Nobody can accuse them of not spending money, though. That's what makes the saga so interesting.

They've become a club where careers go to die, and nobody can find the way out.

I can think of three players whose stature improved there in the last ten years. Marcus Rashford and Bruno Fernandes, who each carried the team for a while and are now being chewed up, and Scott McTominay, who only got his break because Jose Mourinho needed a foil in his battle of will with Paul Pogba.

I understand the criticisms of the Red Bull org, especially in the context of the game in Germany, but they deserve a lot of credit for turning money into consistent and sustainable success.

[echappist]

Originally Posted by goonster

Nobody can accuse them of not spending money, though. That's what makes the saga so interesting.

They've become a club where careers go to die, and nobody can find the way out.

I can think of three players whose stature improved there in the last ten years. Marcus Rashford and Bruno Fernandes, who each carried the team for a while and are now being chewed up, and Scott McTominay, who only got his break because Jose Mourinho needed a foil in his battle of will with Paul Pogba.

You are right about the spending. It's really about how much money is spent and how well that money is spent. And as you say, there is no underlying reason for quite a few of the signings.

Man. Utd. is almost as bad as Tottenham, though at least they still win the odd cup here and there.

I know the game in Italy isn't as demanding as that in England, but somewhat ironic for the 2021 Scudetto winning Inter squad to have so many Man. Utd. rejects.

I understand the criticisms of the Red Bull org, especially in the context of the game in Germany, but they deserve a lot of credit for turning money into consistent and sustainable success.

Speaking of LawnBall, what do you make of Klopp's taking that new job, in particular how he acquiesced to the wishes of someone fanning the far-right flames in Austria (as in Herr Mateschitz)? Are you thinking of changing your profile pic?

[goonster]

Originally Posted by echappist

what do you make of Klopp's taking that new job,

I'm not outraged, and I don't feel betrayed because I never projected unrealistic expectations onto him.

Originally Posted by echappist

in particular how he acquiesced to the wishes of someone fanning the far-right flames in Austria (as in Herr Mateschitz)?

How can he acquiesce to his wishes, when Dietrich Mateschitz has been dead for two years?

Red Bull Soccer is not a right wing political project (other than promoting corporate, rather than member, control of clubs), and I can think of worse ways for them to spend that money.

I felt that way about Hoffenheim, and I felt that way about Ralf Rangnick. I don't love it, but I can't muster visceral outrage. Maybe I'm jaded, because my boyhood club was sponsored by the state tobacco monopoly . . .

[echappist]

Originally Posted by goonster

How can he acquiesce to his wishes, when Dietrich Mateschitz has been dead for two years?

Red Bull Soccer is not a right wing political project (other than promoting corporate, rather than member, control of clubs), and I can think of worse ways for them to spend that money.

I felt that way about Hoffenheim, and I felt that way about Ralf Rangnick. I don't love it, but I can't muster visceral outrage. Maybe I'm jaded, because my boyhood club was sponsored by the state tobacco monopoly . . .

Klopp met Mateschitz by the latter's deathbed in September 2022, a few months before the passing of the latter. This has been widely reported, including by The Athletic.

I think what is striking about the context is that the hiring was not done merely by the RedBull football organization, but rather specifically at the behest of its main and founding shareholder. This is different from RB Salzburg hiring Pep Lijnders, 1.5 years after passing of Mateschitz and performed solely by RedBull the organization.

Mateschitz, of course, is the source of the right-wing (bordering on neo-Nazi) affiliation, as he created a news channel (ServusTV) with a far-right editorial stance. Actually, the owner of ServusTV is RedBull GmbH itself, as opposed to a separate entity created by Mateschitz, so there isn't that much of a firewall between the sporting side and the news side.

FWIW, I think of RedBull the sporting entity more as another corporation, and the right-wing comment was not directed at the sporting entity.

As for your hometown club (assuming it is Dresden), shame that the local bakery guild couldn't have founded a club.

[echappist]

Originally Posted by wc1934

Not me, but I loved the Conte signing. I feared it would take time to adapt to the change in personnel. I was hopeful with the Conte/Lukaku relationship. I knew little of McTominay - wow great energy (tracks back to play d) - thank you Man United.
They did shore up the defense, and Lobotka is the anchor/rock (man wish he was Italian).
Forza Napoli!

Now an away win against Milan at the San Siro.

What a performance!

[wc1934]

Originally Posted by echappist

Now an away win against Milan at the San Siro.

What a performance!

On a roll.
Lukaku just shrugged the defender off of him to score.
Kvara doing his thing (cutbacks and scores).
Meret/Defense with another clean sheet.
Conte has them believing.

Leão is so talented but is he lazy? The announcer commented negatively that while Milan was attacking he was walking back to the action.

The USA was represented:
Musah played very well - Pulisic came on in 2nd half (stomach virus).

[echappist]

Originally Posted by wc1934

On a roll.
Lukaku just shrugged the defender off of him to score.
Kvara doing his thing (cutbacks and scores).
Meret/Defense with another clean sheet.
Conte has them believing.

Leão is so talented but is he lazy? The announcer commented negatively that while Milan was attacking he was walking back to the action.

The USA was represented:
Musah played very well - Pulisic came on in 2nd half (stomach virus).

He’s just old-schooled . Too afraid to have defensive work dent his attacking output. Probably learned it from his OG national team temmate Ronaldo.

Jest aside, the modern game allows for very few stragglers like this. Perhaps prime Messi at 1.5 G + A per 90 minute played can get away with minimal defensive contribution, but even Messi did a lot of defensive work until his mid 30s.

[wc1934]

Originally Posted by echappist

He’s just old-schooled . Too afraid to have defensive work dent his attacking output. Probably learned it from his OG national team temmate Ronaldo.

Jest aside, the modern game allows for very few stragglers like this. Even Messi did a lot of defensive work until his mid 30s.

I get it if he doesn't play defense - few attackers track back to defend.
But nooo - Milan was on the attack - they had the ball and were in Napoli's end - Leão just walked up the field into the action.
Announcers are not usually very critical, but they were on this occasion - and rightly so.

[echappist]

Yikes, now that’s a really bad look.

If Pep were his coach, he’d get sent down to practice with the U21s.

[goonster]

Originally Posted by echappist

As for your hometown club (assuming it is Dresden)

Nope, it was these guys.

[echappist]

Oh, what an interesting dive into the history of the club!

Yes, I have heard of Austria Wien (along with Rapid Wien). I separately know of the story of Matthias Sindelar. It somehow just escaped my memory for which team he played.

I mentioned Dresden, b/c I know you are a native Deutsch-sprecher (e.g. your signature line), and apparently Dresden has/had a team withe the "tabak" quite literally in the name of the team.

As an aside, I've watched enough German-language TV to have a guess at what your signature line means. Each/every closed space is a jail? Interesting how the words for castle and hermicity are etymologically related in German.

[goonster]

Originally Posted by echappist

As an aside, I've watched enough German-language TV to have a guess at what your signature line means. Each/every closed space is a jail?

'Every closed room/space is a coffin.'

It's a lyric from my favorite German-language album.

Verstärker - Lyrics

Originally Posted by echappist

Interesting how the words for castle and hermicity are etymologically related in German.

Dunno about "hermicity." The words for castle/chateau and lock are homonyms.

[martl]

Originally Posted by echappist

Mateschitz, of course, is the source of the right-wing (bordering on neo-Nazi) affiliation, as he created a news channel (ServusTV)

It may be a bit misleading calling Servus TV a news channel, it isnt as if they were like cnn or fox. The program is composed mainly of recycled older tv series, some nature-documentaries usually around Austria, their own red bull sports events, and the occasional big time sports broadcast like a soccer game or an F1 race. They have like 2 10min news slots a day (which are outside-sourced) and a weekly talkshow led by the Editor-in-chief, which is/was the root of the controversies.