Anti-Helmet tendency from cycling advocates?

[jamesdak]

Originally Posted by jasflyfisher

Either way, try and stay safe out there.

Yep, you just can't plan and protect yourself from everything. Life is about risk management and personal acceptance and choice.

Heck, I'm sitting here all addled brained and getting ready to retire early due health problems. One major issue is the effects of too many head injuries.

Off the top of my head I've been knocked out several times:
1. Came off a horse in the 80's, walked 1/4 mile home with no recollection of it.
2. Knocked out when hit from behind while riding with a helmet.
3. Had to black out for a few seconds when a dog took out my front wheel and yes I was wearing a helmet. My memory of the even says I kept both hands on the handlebar, rode the bike to the ground, and then the dog owner was standing over me as I "immediately" untangled from the bike. The only problem with that is the owner was easily in his 70's and 50-70 yards away in a field immediately before the dog surprised me. So there has to be some lost time there.

Other times where I've seen the proverbial stars:
1. Horse kicked me through a flimsy barn wall
2. Football in my teens and a few games in the Army
3. Bad landing on an Airborne jump wearing a helmet.
4. Beatdown by a mob while trying to get a teammate's body out of an ambush situation.

So, I know I cannot afford yet another head injury. Yet today I am planning right now to ride a bike up Snowbasin Mountain. I will see speeds in the 40 mph range when I descent. I will wear a helmet, risk accepted.

I will use the dutch bike mentioned in a post above multiple times this weekend running errands, no helmet, risk accepted.

We live our lives measuring and respecting risks. So biking is just another piece of that puzzle.

I will drive my car whenever needed, no helmet, risk accepted.

I will continue to hike in the backcountry alone as I have my whole life, risk accepted.

I joined the Army knowing all that could happen there, risk accepted.

I lived in Europe for years, driving at speed well over 100 mph, risk accepted.

I've raced cars in the past, drags, road tracks, autocrossing, risk accepted.

I joined a SpecOps team when recruited, risk accepted.

I jumped out of perfectly good airplanes, risk accepted.

I have become extremely allergic to bee stings in the past 5 years, I still go outside and live my life, risk accepted.

I photographed a Bull Moose that was with a cow moose that had a calf Monday. The only wild animals to ever charge me over the years have been moose. I still did my "work" the other day despite past history, risk accepted.

I was clearing an area in my yard a couple of weeks ago when I hears a buzzing. Spotted several Bald Face Hornets on branches of the Spruce I was working on. Couldn't find the nest. Walked away, risk not accepted.

Part of my ride today will be on a 50 mph highway with no shoulder. This is my normal daily route, risk accepted.

Anyway, I'm sure I am coffee rambling but whether it's biking or just getting out of bed, we all have a life to live and with it come risks. We all have different tolerances. I cannot imagine living my life focused mainly on risk advoidance in every situation. Life is for living!!!

[Fat Cat]

Originally Posted by charliedid

Or real wars.

Yeah, reality can be so distressing.

I've destroyed two helmets. But not my head. I'm OK with wearing one.

[unterhausen]

Back before helmets were ubiquitous, I didn't wear a helmet on most days. I went over the bars sprinting for a yellow sign. I got 28 stitches and lost some blood. Proper protocol is to put you in the hospital and wake you up every 2 hours to make sure you're not dead. I have always thought wearing a helmet would be preferable to that. There are a lot of crashes where they are pretty useless, but me doing goofy things on a bike is worth protecting against.

[jadmt]

Originally Posted by C40_guy

Choices? DNR or breathing tube?

You make your choices; I'll make mine.

I value my noggin and its cognitive abilities. Yea, I've fallen off a bike, at 3 mph, for no good reason (aside from heat exhaustion..)

Personally, I think it's simply stupid not to protect my moneymaker.

yes exactly. It is good to have choices.

[Sarhog]

Originally Posted by jamesdak

Well.... I see both sides of this equation. I feel naked heading out on one of my road bikes without my helmet. But feel no inclination whatsoever to put on my helmet when I ride my Omafiets, otherwise known as the Dutch Granny bike. LOL!



It has to do with the design of the bike and your riding position.

Among considerations on the dutch bike is the upright position where you are much more able to see everything going around you. And when things do go wrong you're more likely to just land on your feet coming off the dutch bike unlike a road bike. Speeds are usually lower when I'm on the dutch bike although with the gear range of the 8 speed IGH, it certainly can move out. Then there's the matter of this being almost primarily a bike path tool, a arguably safer and more controlled place to ride than the road. The sheer mass of the bike makes it safer, it's easily 2x the weight of my heaviest road bike. Then you have the handling. Take for example my last wreck on a road bike. A dog darted out from a roadside trailer, went right into my front wheel, and I couldn't prevent going down. Wound up with a separated AC Joint, messed up thumb joint and pretty sure I got knocked out for a few seconds. Unless a 70 year old man can sprint 75 meters in like 2 seconds... Now I bet if that same thing happened while I was on the dutch bike it would have probably been a pretty much nothing event. If the dog succeeded in taking out that front wheel I'm betting I wind up on my feet as I come off the dutch bike.



.

Many of my motorcycling friends take this approach. Full face helmet, leather jacket and gloves on their sport bike, but shorts and no helmet on their 900 lb Harley Davidson. IMO, it’s driven by fashion.

[weiwentg]

Originally Posted by prototoast

The basic rationale is:

-For any given bike ride, wearing a helmet is safer, but may sometimes have other costs.
-Helmet laws may discourage riding at the margin, as the costs may outweigh the benefits for some people.
-Collectively, people would be healthier and biking would be safer if more people biked.
-Thus, even if each individual would be safer for any given ride by wearing a helmet, the total benefit from the improved safety is less than the benefit to society of more people biking more.

Personally, I always ride with a helmet, but I'm fine it others don't, and I generally don't agree with helmet laws.

I think there's a more extreme version of this argument that says that people voluntarily wearing a helmet have a negative externality by making cycling seem more dangerous to others, thus discourage riding. I think that argument is more suspect than the one I outlined above.

I think this is the key distinction: some cycling advocates are against mandatory helmet laws, not helmets.

[jamesdak]

Originally Posted by Sarhog

Many of my motorcycling friends take this approach. Full face helmet, leather jacket and gloves on their sport bike, but shorts and no helmet on their 900 lb Harley Davidson. IMO, it’s driven by fashion.

I don't see the correlation which means I'm probably not explaining myself well. Certainly has nothing to do with fashion and everything to do with not feeling a real risk of crashing and hitting my noggin.

[fourflys]

Originally Posted by weiwentg

I think this is the key distinction: some cycling advocates are against mandatory helmet laws, not helmets.

are there actual bike helmet laws for adults? If there are, I don't think they are enforced.. helmet laws for kids? heck yes.. and I support them 100%, as I think most ER Docs and pediatricians do..

[saab2000]

I’m intrigued by that Dutch bike pictured above. But the website doesn’t show anything nearly that nice. Anyone know the story of where to find that one? Or is that owner modified?

[Louis]

Originally Posted by saab2000

Or is that owner modified?

Yes - added the milk crate to hold a helmet.

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by Louis

Yes - added the milk crate to hold a helmet.

The front and rear racks appear stock items or accessories that come with the bike or are matching and can be purchased. The milk crate is a pretty cool add-on. This would be a cool grocery getter where I live.

[jamesdak]

Originally Posted by saab2000

The front and rear racks appear stock items or accessories that come with the bike or are matching and can be purchased. The milk crate is a pretty cool add-on. This would be a cool grocery getter where I live.

That's 100% stock from them although with some upgraded bits at the time of order. The plastic milk crate is my only add on, for carrying stuff. One of these day's I'll replace it with a wooden stained to match the brown bits on the bike.

The really cool thing is that whole front rack is mounted free of the front wheel. There are tubes on the frame that bars of the rack slide in and out of to hold it. So it takes like 2 seconds to take it off when you don't need it. I've carried around 40 lbs in it with no affect on the handling of the bike at all.

The picture of the bike from their custom build site.



Here's the custom design site. It's pretty slick!

https://my.azor.nl/configurator/16d0...74d7149ba433ba

If I remember correctly I did the custom design myself, saved it, and then sent it to Steven at Amsterdam Bicycle Company to place the order. They are the North America distributor.

https://www.amsterdam-bicycle.com/sh...r-own-bicycle/

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by jamesdak

That's 100% stock from them although with some upgraded bits at the time of order. The plastic milk crate is my only add on, for carrying stuff. One of these day's I'll replace it with a wooden stained to match the brown bits on the bike.

The really cool thing is that whole front rack is mounted free of the front wheel. There are tubes on the frame that bars of the rack slide in and out of to hold it. So it takes like 2 seconds to take it off when you don't need it. I've carried around 40 lbs in it with no affect on the handling of the bike at all.

The picture of the bike from their custom build site.



Here's the custom design site. It's pretty slick!

https://my.azor.nl/configurator/16d0...74d7149ba433ba

If I remember correctly I did the custom design myself, saved it, and then sent it to Steven at Amsterdam Bicycle Company to place the order. They are the North America distributor.

https://www.amsterdam-bicycle.com/sh...r-own-bicycle/

Thanks! I’ll have a peek!

[C40_guy]

Originally Posted by saab2000

I’m intrigued by that Dutch bike pictured above. But the website doesn’t show anything nearly that nice. Anyone know the story of where to find that one? Or is that owner modified?

Sweet. A heated discussion about the pros/cons of helmets and helmet laws evolves into a group virtual shopping trip for a commuter bike.

I love this place.

[Spoker]

Many of the bike deaths in Holland are caused, or are , E- bike , fat bike accidents. Parlement is discussing helmet laws for these.