Must-read of the week: The Doping Ordeal of Lizzy Banks

[72gmc]

Originally Posted by FriarQuade

I'll never understand why cycling fans want to destroy the sport to vilify dopers. Road racing was way more entertaining when they were all juiced to the gills anyway.

I have this debate with myself. My present strategy for finding peace with cyclists doing what it takes to win, is to turn my cynicism toward the anti-doping orgs that are engaged in blatant shenanigans ... per my first post in this thread.

[ridethecliche]

Originally Posted by benb

I think one of the problems (and this is true with ADHD) is that it's too easy to get a diagnosis and medications and then the TUE just by answering the questions correctly.

My child has ADHD so we've been through that.. the bar to get yourself declared as having ADHD as an adult is actually lower than for a child. You just give the right answers and you've got your drugs, and IIRC you don't have to have quarterly doctor appointments to re-evaluate like kids do, and they certainly don't require your employer or others to check in with the doctor the way the school has to with kids.

This might have become true during the COVID era of online pill mills, but I can say that it is extremely more challenging to be diagnosed with ADHD as an adult walking into an adult psychiatrists office vs a child psychiatrists office. Most outpatient doctors won't start an adult on stimulants without seeing a psychiatrist and pediatricians do it all the time.

In any event, this is going the way of the pain med pill mill way with a lot of the only companies getting into big trouble over their practices.

[ridethecliche]

Originally Posted by jds108

In my university aged years I was cycling a lot including entry-level crits. Cycling was the only activity that would trigger my Asthma (so it was exercise induced asthma, EIA).

Just one data point, nothing more.

Same here, but my underlying dx of EIA popped up after I got presumed RSV working at a childrens hospital (or just from the community). My cough was bronchospastic and when my pediatric trainee friends commented as such and asked if I had asthma and I responded yeah EIA in college, they told me to start using my inhaler again. It's the only thing that helped my cough and helped me finally get rid of it.

I very very rarely get bronchospastic during workouts. Mostly doing VO2Max work in cold cold temperatures (mostly in the context of hard climbing intervals in dead of winter)... but thats not something I do too often anymore.

So yeah, many people with EIA may never push their body hard enough to know if they have it or not, but being predisposed to having EIA can make other things pop up relative to someone who isn't predisposed to it, i.e. bronchospastic cough post RSV or other lung bug.

[Likes2ridefar]

Originally Posted by GregL

I had a close, personal relationship with a pro athlete. Without doubt one of the most messed up people I ever met. Their OCD issues associated with their sports are often a way to run/swim/bike away from deep seated emotional problems. So much of their identity is tied up in their sports that they will do anything to win.

Greg

I was on a pro team for a few years and not a single person on the entire team exhibited these traits or was an emotional basket case.

[GregL]

Originally Posted by Likes2ridefar

I was on a pro team for a few years and not a single person on the entire team exhibited these traits or was an emotional basket case.

We're both working from limited data sets, so our observations are just that, observations. It would take peer-reviewed, scientific studies to provide factual information. I would certainly welcome a link to scientific studies.

Thanks,
Greg

[nmrt]

I am not sure why it is hard to believe that there are people who would fake a ADHD diagnosis to get the medications.

If you search on pubmed, here are articles that discuss this. Here is one of many: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9406161/

Originally Posted by zennmotion

"Getting diagnosed at outrageous rates" you mean to imply that many/most of them are faking it? Official diagnosis is much more precise and thorough now than when I was first diagnosed (through a 3 hour peer-reviewed questionnaire, followed later by physical testing and later still by a brain scan). I think a much more likely explanation of most of the uptick resulted from adults who were suddenly forced to work from home (with kids), or otherwise isolated, without the normal stimulus of office environments, face time with colleagues/clients/customers, staring at computer screens with all the online distractions, skyrocketing anxiety (like everyone else but multiplied as ADHD and anxiety go hand-in-hand). No surprise that, given the changing reality of Covid, so many that were managing pre-Covid were desperate for lifelines including ADHD meds that require an Rx. My issue is that your skepticism seems to be reflect a worldview that many/most adults seeking diagnosis and treatment are somehow illegitimate or cheating. The FDA, which provides oversight over Schedule 2 drug production and/or distribution in the US, has repeatedly effed up big time by reading and manipulating the demand projections wrong, and (insert conspiracy here, although supported by data and clear causal connections) it's coincidental with Big Pharm lobbying the FDA to maximize profits for some medications by throttling cheaper imports, taking advantage of the new Covid and post-pandemic realities. Shocking, I know...

[glepore]

I don't doubt that there is a point to be made in her case, but that screed was pretty much impossible to digest on an analytical level.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by FriarQuade

I'll never understand why cycling fans want to destroy the sport to vilify dopers. Road racing was way more entertaining when they were all juiced to the gills anyway.

I bet if we let bike racers do cocaine in a race, they could fill Madison Garden!

[FriarQuade]

Originally Posted by Likes2ridefar

I was on a pro team for a few years and not a single person on the entire team exhibited these traits or was an emotional basket case.

Originally Posted by GregL

We're both working from limited data sets, so our observations are just that, observations. It would take peer-reviewed, scientific studies to provide factual information. I would certainly welcome a link to scientific studies.

Thanks,
Greg

I worked as a freelance team mechanic for a decade, plenty of teams and riders people here would recognize, 90% of it for road teams. With a few exceptions the athletes were all pretty normal people. I will point out that I almost never interreacted with these athletes outside of a race so what they were like away from work could be very different.

[Likes2ridefar]

Originally Posted by FriarQuade

I worked as a freelance team mechanic for a decade, plenty of teams and riders people here would recognize, 90% of it for road teams. With a few exceptions the athletes were all pretty normal people. I will point out that I almost never interreacted with these athletes outside of a race so what they were like away from work could be very different.

Sounds similar to my experience. I frequently traveled in international rolling stage races with many others and generally had a great experience interacting with people from all over the world.

[jamesdak]

Originally Posted by jds108

In my university aged years I was cycling a lot including entry-level crits. Cycling was the only activity that would trigger my Asthma (so it was exercise induced asthma, EIA).

Just one data point, nothing more.

All my life as a runner, sprinter in younger years that even qualified for the all Army Track team, then on to marathoning I never knew I had any asthma issue. I always had excess mucus flowing when I ran and spit all the time really never gave it a thought.

Finally was diagnosed with asthma in my 40's while going through my 3rd round of allergy shots. The only time I have actually breathing problems sometimes that I notice are while cycling. It's the only time I use an inhaler too. For me it' seems like temp extremes as if really cold and hot cause me more issues cycling than on moderate days. Effort seems like less of a trigger.

So, another supporting data point that means something or nothing, LOL!

[bikerboy337]

I found the story to be pretty heartbreaking… glad it’s been resolved for her but the main point I take away is that WADA and the Country doping agencies are all powerful and if you want to fight any results it’s on your dime, for most pros that not an option. In her case really was guilty until proven innocent, but at that point of innocence, she had already lost it all writhing the sport, so no real justice.

[tctyres]

The Real Science of Sport Podcast has done a lot on doping.
Sadly, the story is pretty much the same. Positive tests indicate doping in the majority of the cases. False positives are extremely rare. Most of the time, the athlete is caught and is trying to wriggle out of a suspension.

Did she dope? I don't really know.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by bikerboy337

I found the story to be pretty heartbreaking… glad it’s been resolved for her but the main point I take away is that WADA and the Country doping agencies are all powerful and if you want to fight any results it’s on your dime, for most pros that not an option. In her case really was guilty until proven innocent, but at that point of innocence, she had already lost it all writhing the sport, so no real justice.

Actually, she wasn't proven innocent - just the opposite, actually. The WADA code is based on the principle of Strict Liability; it doesn't matter how a prohibited substance got into the athlete's body, the mere presence of the prohibited substance is enough for a doping violation. Banks never showed (or even attempted to show) that the test was faulty, and that the substance was not in their body.

The WADA code allows for reduced (or eliminated) sanctions in cases with Special Exceptions (such as tainted food), but this is more like a pardon or a commuted sentence - the person is still guilty, they just have their punishment reduced. Special Exceptions are granted on a case-by-case basis.

[tctyres]

^ Her B-sample was positive, which was collected the same day. WADA would go back and look at other samples for potential irregularities too.

She ingested the banned substance. 100% of these defenses rely on, "I didn't know. It was contaminated."

Yeah, sure.