Vintage Audio part 5 - Speakers

[DRZRM]

I run some midsized B&Ws (DM630s) that I got on craigslist in Boston (they replaced some huge Dalquest DQ-10s that I inherited from my dad, but those needed way more power than my Luxman could offer, and they now need to be rebuilt). I love the B&Ws and have heard good things about their studio monitors (DM5 or 602s) which are widely available for decent prices (craigslist is your friend).

That said, I'd take the Bose speakers and test them out for a bit. What spend money if you don't need to.

[Dino Suegiù]

Originally Posted by DRZRM

I run some midsized B&Ws (DM630s) that I got on craigslist in Boston (they replaced some huge Dalquest DQ-10s that I inherited from my dad, but those needed way more power than my Luxman could offer, and they now need to be rebuilt). I love the B&Ws and have heard good things about their studio monitors (DM5 or 602s) which are widely available for decent prices (craigslist is your friend).

That said, I'd take the Bose speakers and test them out for a bit. What spend money if you don't need to.

The B&W 602 are the ones I have, really excellent.

I do think the Pioneer are very good for the money. They are a great bargain.

Of course why not try the Bose, if nothing just to know how they sound in that personal environment?

[verbs4us]

Another B&W endorsement. Running bookshelf speakers (one size down from the 601.) They do require some volume to come into their own, but do punch above their weight class. Driving with an old McIntosh 5300 amp and a Thorens turntable. Best speakers I ever heard were Harbeth reference, not sure of the model. The US distributor is in New Hampshire. Will require a second mortgage.

[yinzerniner]

Originally Posted by William

Thank you for the suggestions folks, the Bose were a "hey, if you want them..." kind of thing. I appreciate the offer but I'll politely pass for a few reasons. I'm not looking to have to dig up any of the Gold Bullion I may or may not have buried in the basement to pay for a new set of speakers, really looking for good bang for the buck units in new or suggestions/experience for more vintage units.

Towers wouldn't bother me but I do have to live with Mrs. William and unless I want to set it up out in one of the barns mid-sized to bookshelf sized is what I'm looking for. Do bookshelf units these days have decent bass response? I don't need ground thumping but good bass in proportion to midrange and high would be preferable.

William

Still haven't given even a rough idea of absolute budget. "Bang for the buck" starts to go down precipitously in bookshelf speakers once you're above $2000 for new, $1500 for used, so if your budget is above that the world is your oyster in terms of "bang for buck" choices, but if your budget is only $700 then the list gets much shorter.

As for bass response, lots of bookshelf speakers these days can provide very even response down to 50hz or so, but ONLY when paired with good stands or coupled as much as possible to the floor. Decent response below 40Hz for even the best bookshelf speakers isn't feasible because of the limitations of low frequency sound production. That being said, world class bass from a small footprint subwoofer can be had for less than $500, especially on the used market. I'd take a $1200 set of bookshelves, $200 stands and a $300 subwoofer over a $2k set of floorstanders any day of the week.

As for recos, lots of amazing ones made from other members that I totally forgot about. For midrange (sub $1k) Axiom, SVS, Def Tech, Klipsch, Boston Acoustics, PSB, even JBL. For high-end bookshelves ($2k plus) Dynaudio should be top of anyone's list, as should Revel, Magnepan, Thiel, KEF, Sonus Faber, Amphion, and of course B&W. And of course there are tons more out there.

[Ken Robb]

Since we all seem to agree that bookshelf speakers need stands to sound good will that combination be any more acceptable to your Minister of the Interior than towers of the same height?

[djg]

Originally Posted by Ken Robb

Since we all seem to agree that bookshelf speakers need stands to sound good will that combination be any more acceptable to your Minister of the Interior than towers of the same height?

I think that's a good question, although I'd qualify "to sound good" to mean to do what they are capable of doing, or close to it -- good music played through decent bookshelf speakers might be enjoyed, certainly, even if the speakers are placed on actual bookshelves, and in some ways might be more forgiving of placement than many full range speakers -- at least for some bookshelf speakers.

There are good quality budget towers with relatively small footprints from many of the lines listed. KEF and B&W, among others, with the smaller Vandersteen not too big either, and maybe all three reasonable new for some models and, obviously, less expensive used if you can find them in good condition. Elac has some towers that are inexpensive brand new, and very well-reviewed, although I've not heard them. Music Direct still has some of the Wharfedale Diamond 10.7 available new marked down to 699 a pair -- very well received at just about double that price before the closeout, and with these I actually have a pair -- good imaging, very nice mid-range, and pretty easy to drive, in case you don't have the best amp on hand.

The new KEF bookshelf speakers sound very good at about 1,200 a pair (give or take?) and the older KEF reference bookshelf speakers should be much less expensive on the used market. B&W also make several good bookshelf speakers that don't cost an arm and a leg. Cheaper? Way cheaper, the little Wharfedale Diamond 220 are worth checking out, definitely, if that's your budget. The recent Andrew Jones Elac bookshelf speakers get rave reviews at budget prices -- some are cheap, really -- but I haven't heard these in person. More than the Elac, but still in everyday budget land are Monitor Audio.

[timsmcm]

Anything Sonus Faber with a nice tube amp. Very natural and organic. Great imaging and sound stage. The more you can spend the better they get.

[Ken Robb]

Originally Posted by timsmcm

Anything Sonus Faber with a nice tube amp. Very natural and organic. Great imaging and sound stage. The more you can spend the better they get.

I have a Sonus Faber for my center channel between my Vandersteens. It was a loaner while my local shop ordered a Vandersteen center speaker in the finish I wanted. The dealer warned me that I might not want to give it back and he was correct.

[Peter P.]

Originally Posted by mcteague

Be advised that Bose is a dirty word in the hi-fi world. They have never been known for accurate sound.
Tim

That's been my experience. As some others have mentioned, the spaciousness of the Bose 901's is something to behold.

Originally Posted by rodcad

Heresy. Small but seriously mighty.

You're preaching to the choir here, brother! However, I did discover the hard way, buying them before hearing them, that they don't play any lower in frequency than most bookshelf speakers including the bookshelf speakers they were replacing; down to 50Hz. However, they DO have a seriously muscular sound once the volume is upped. They are brutally efficient. I caved and added a passive subwoofer to fill in the next 1/2 octave down.

Originally Posted by William

...really looking for good bang for the buck units in new or suggestions/experience for more vintage units.

...Do bookshelf units these days have decent bass response? I don't need ground thumping but good bass in proportion to midrange and high would be preferable.
William

Check out craigslist. The aforementioned Klipsch Heresy's can be had for $500 a pair which is a very good price, and you won't have to worry about rotting foam surrounds. Craigslist has a lot of vintage and other speakers at very good prices. If you were looking for a floorstanding model, I'd tell you to RUN to buy the Klipsch Quartets being offered. I had a pair and while I didn't keep them, it wasn't because of the sound. These things just plain manhandle music, and the price is very good.

Bookshelf speakers will only reach down to 50Hz at best. Once you hear a speaker that reaches lower, you won't want to go backwards. If you must use bookshelf speakers, you can at first try them on stands (which won't do anything for the bass, it'll just save you money), but I'd recommend you add a subwoofer, even if it's a small 10 incher.

Here are my Heresy's next to a pair of Klipsch Quartets I once owned, to give you a sense of size. I bought my Heresy's on craigslist for MUCH less than the $2k price they sell for now.

[Bob Ross]

Originally Posted by C40_guy

Bose speakers are a strange phenomenon. Some people love them, others hate them.

I think it's fair to say the people who love them are mostly folks unconcerned with "accuracy" and the people who hate them are mostly folks who want something more closely resembling genuine "fidelity". But there is a lot of bandwagon-jumping and advertisement-parroting that contributes to both camps.

Originally Posted by C40_guy

Long ago I sold hifi, and briefly worked at the Tweeter store just a couple of miles from the Mountain (Bose headquarters). People walked into that store knowing they wanted Bose.

Heh-heh... in the early 1980s I worked at the Tweeter Etc. shop in Chestnut Hill MA, and we had a motto about selling Bose speakers:

TDC

If a potential customer came in asking about Bose speakers you could try to take the audiophile equivalent of a Moral High Road and explain why any number of speakers would be a better (i.e., more accurate, realistic-sounding) choice than Bose...but that would be 30-60 minutes of your life that might be better spent banging your head against a wall.

The more expedient approach would be to say "Will that be cash or charge?", ring up the sale, and watch another satisfied customer march out of your shop with the Bose speakers they came in looking for. TDC.

Take Da Cash

[William]

Originally Posted by Peter P.

Check out craigslist. The aforementioned Klipsch Heresy's can be had for $500 a pair which is a very good price, and you won't have to worry about rotting foam surrounds. Craigslist has a lot of vintage and other speakers at very good prices. If you were looking for a floorstanding model, I'd tell you to RUN to buy the Klipsch Quartets being offered. I had a pair and while I didn't keep them, it wasn't because of the sound. These things just plain manhandle music, and the price is very good.

I spotted those on the local CL the other day and have been thinking about going to check them out. A little bigger than Mrs. W would probably like....but it's better to ask for forgive....








William

[C40_guy]

Originally Posted by Bob Ross

Heh-heh... in the early 1980s I worked at the Tweeter Etc. shop in Chestnut Hill MA, and we had a motto about selling Bose speakers:

The Chestnut Hill shopper was a more "discerning" customer. We didn't sell many Bose speakers. Probably more KEF.

We must have just missed one another...I was there '82-83, working for Paul S!

[chrisroph]

There is a saying in audio, no highs, no lows, must be bose. I'd also add no accurate mid range. Bose has brilliant marketing.

I'll second totems. I run totem signature 1s in my second system. They are excellent for what they cost. Try audiogon for second hand equipment.

[Bob Ross]

Originally Posted by C40_guy

We must have just missed one another...I was there '82-83, working for Paul S!

Yep, Paul S still worked for the company, he had recently been promoted from Chestnut Hill store manager to corporate head of training/recruiting or something like that. He was the guy I interviewed with in '83.

In 2014 I was out at a factory training clinic for a speaker manufacturer and their Director of Sales had worked at the Tweeter store in Dedham in the 1990s; he told me that Paul got out of the audio business when Tweeter went belly up and now sells exotic handbuilt knives!

[DarkStar]

Originally Posted by mcteague

Be advised that Bose is a dirty word in the hi-fi world. They have never been known for accurate sound.

Tim

Often spelled Blose.