Long term reviews of Chorus 12 speed versus 11?

[Brian Cdn]

[QUOTE=R3awak3n;2820442]
and final, 12 speed is ugly. The RD is aweful looking and the crank is not much better. Can get away with an old 11 speed crank but have to stick with the less appealing RD. Quote]


Nothing elegant 'bout the 12 speed cranks, front or rear der. They may work, but they sure are ugly. Not looking forward to 12's if my 11's need to be replaced.

[Velocipede]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

What parts of new Chorus are repairable (that for other groups are not)? It seems like fewer spare parts are available then there used to be. Are 12spd shifter spare parts available (like they used to be and still are for most 10spd shifters)? Are 12spd derailleur spare parts available?

It used to be that one of the advantages of Campagnolo shifters over Shimano shifters was that Campagnolo shifters were repairable - or at least they used to be 8/9/10spd. That stopped with 11spd, due to lack of spare parts.

My comment of Campy being repairable was saying Campy is, Shimano is not. There are plenty of Campagnolo parts available. Not sure who you're getting them from. I do know, and have experienced this first hand, that many times, shops don't want to order parts for Campy. Or order Campy in general.

I've had this happen and heard of it happening from clients. Most shops would rather sell something else, or something new vs rebuilding it. I had a long time customer till he passed away due to this happening to him. He went to a larger chain(4) of stores here. He told them his front wheel was making noise. They looked at it and said his "hub was ovalized". They sold him a new wheelset. Some time later, he was sitting outside a coffee shop and saw me testing a bike. He came over and asked me if I'd look a his Rolf wheel and told me the story. He brought it back later and told me he was getting ready to fly out for a week and I had time to look at it. Turns out he was the chief pilot for Sherwin Williams.

He took off and I spent about 5 minutes looking at it and called him back about 15 minutes after that. I told him the issue and told him it'd be $10. The problem was the cartridge bearing was shifting slightly in the bearing bore. A bit of green locktite and all was well.

He and his wife ended up being a customer till he passed. They bought 3 more bikes from me, 2 of them folding bikes to fit in the airplane he was making. Because I knew what I was doing, listened to him and tried to help, and actually did, he would take me for flights in the SW planes and his own. Let me fly too.

Big difference between shops out there.

But there are parts out there for Campy. If you need something, let me know. I'm happy to help.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

My comment of Campy being repairable was saying Campy is, Shimano is not. There are plenty of Campagnolo parts available. Not sure who you're getting them from. I do know, and have experienced this first hand, that many times, shops don't want to order parts for Campy. Or order Campy in general.

How are shops to order spare parts if there are no part numbers for them? The Campagnolo Spare Parts Catalog hasn't shown part numbers for the internal parts of Ultra Shift shifters since 2014. The Spare Parts Catalog doesn't show any internal parts for 12spd shifters.

[Velocipede]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

How are shops to order spare parts if there are no part numbers for them? The Campagnolo Spare Parts Catalog hasn't shown part numbers for the internal parts of Ultra Shift shifters since 2014. The Spare Parts Catalog doesn't show any internal parts for 12spd shifters.

I'm looking at my hardcopy 2019 Campy Spare Parts catalog and it shows all the numbers including the internals. Some things, they are trying to simplify. Like EC-RE400(Record 12) is the lever body and internals. Some people don't know or want to know how to strip the shifters down. Shops have access to the same stuff I do. Just depends on if they want to do it or not. QBP has tons of spare parts. And if they don't, they can order from Campy NA.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

I'm looking at my hardcopy 2019 Campy Spare Parts catalog and it shows all the numbers including the internals. Some things, they are trying to simplify. Like EC-RE400(Record 12) is the lever body and internals. Some people don't know or want to know how to strip the shifters down. Shops have access to the same stuff I do. Just depends on if they want to do it or not. QBP has tons of spare parts. And if they don't, they can order from Campy NA.

Are the Spare Parts Catalogs on the Campagnolo web site incomplete? The 2019 edition and the 2020 edition show no shifter internal parts, just assemblies.

The latest catalog on the QBP website is the 2016 edition, but they don't show any internal parts for Ultra-Shift levers either. The QBP catalog does show various internal parts (springs, bushings, carriers, spacers, etc.) for 10spd shifters, however.

If Campagnolo does sell spare parts for the latest components, they don't make it easy to identify and find them.

[oldpotatoe]

[QUOTE=Brian Cdn;2821055]

Originally Posted by R3awak3n

and final, 12 speed is ugly. The RD is awful looking and the crank is not much better. Can get away with an old 11 speed crank but have to stick with the less appealing RD. Quote]


Nothing elegant 'bout the 12 speed cranks, front or rear der. They may work, but they sure are ugly. Not looking forward to 12's if my 11's need to be replaced.

Pretty funny..Campag always gets the air time as having an 'ugly' rear der BUT..none will win any beauty prizes BUT I'm a believer or function over form. But about the looks of a rear der..must be winter already.

Besides, It's Campag, and like Rapha, gotta kvetch...I think red one most ugliest..and their etap one..yikes.

[R3awak3n]

[QUOTE=oldpotatoe;2821273]

Originally Posted by Brian Cdn

Pretty funny..Campag always gets the air time as having an 'ugly' rear der BUT..none will win any beauty prizes BUT I'm a believer or function over form. But about the looks of a rear der..must be winter already.

Besides, It's Campag, and like Rapha, gotta kvetch...I think red one most ugliest..and their etap one..yikes.

of those 3, campy 12s is the ugliest one by far.


to be fair, 11 speed campy was probably the best looking or at least comparable. The new stuff just does not look good my man. I would still use it because I am a campy fan but just ugly.

Funny thing is that as far as EKAR goes, that looks good to me, the whole group works well together (minus that thumb button that thing is fugly), but 12 speed from the RD to the crank is a no for me.

But you are right, none of the 3 are good looking. I think OG etap looks awesome but the new axs is a step back in that department. Shimano might be the best looking but its not 12 speed so it is out of the competition.

[vespasianus]

[QUOTE=R3awak3n;2821277]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

of those 3, campy 12s is the ugliest one by far.


to be fair, 11 speed campy was probably the best looking or at least comparable. The new stuff just does not look good my man. I would still use it because I am a campy fan but just ugly.

Funny thing is that as far as EKAR goes, that looks good to me, the whole group works well together (minus that thumb button that thing is fugly), but 12 speed from the RD to the crank is a no for me.

But you are right, none of the 3 are good looking. I think OG etap looks awesome but the new axs is a step back in that department. Shimano might be the best looking but its not 12 speed so it is out of the competition.

That would be your opinion. I think the Campag RD looks the best.

[saab2000]

9000 was the best looking 'modern' groupset IMHO.

But I think today's Campagnolo is attractive in its own way, especially in SR form.

But for my eyes it's Shimano's 9000 stuff though at this point it's what, a decade old? Or more? And limited to 11 speeds and a 28-tooth rear. I'm on a fixed budget at the moment so no new toys for me for a while.

Sorry for the thread drift......

But don't buy any of them because they win beauty contests. Buy them because you like them because the most beautiful groupset ever made, Campagnolo C-Record, will never be matched, let alone outshined.

[Dave]

I prefer to ride my bike rather than spend a lot of time looking at it. Function rules for me. I bought two Chorus 12 groups last July - no regrets. Best mechanical group for the price.

I've got Force AXS rim brake too - looks fine to me. Still use my Chorus brakes.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

Are the Spare Parts Catalogs on the Campagnolo web site incomplete? The 2019 edition and the 2020 edition show no shifter internal parts, just assemblies.

The latest catalog on the QBP website is the 2016 edition, but they don't show any internal parts for Ultra-Shift levers either. The QBP catalog does show various internal parts (springs, bushings, carriers, spacers, etc.) for 10spd shifters, however.

If Campagnolo does sell spare parts for the latest components, they don't make it easy to identify and find them.

They don't have part numbers on the internals of the shifters..haven't since about 2011. Assemblies only, thumb buttons and brake blades but nothing internal. BUT, that's not to say that Campag, ITL, doesn't have small internal bits available since they are at the factory....

Yes, some of 'us' buy assemblies and strip for parts(altho I haven't heard of anybody else doing this) BUT not much can go wrong with these..VERY simple and robust internals.

I AM buying a RH Record/Chorus 12s lever assembly on Monday..I want to strip and peer inside.

[zap]

Have SR11 on the Crumpton and Chorus 12 (partial) on one of our tandems. The tandem was put together early summer, the Crumpton re-cabled this winter.

Tough comparison as tandem cables run longer plus this is our travel tandem so there are cable splitters. Despite this, the Chorus 12 rear shifting on our tandem is spectacular. The SR11 is a bit more "mechanical". Can't compare front shifting as the Chorus 12 front derailleur does not work with tandem spacing....which I documented here on Paceline earlier this year.

This is not a long term review as we only have about 2K miles on our tandem now but it has been flawless. SR11 did eat a front derailleur cable 2 years ago which was a surprise. Never had that happen with Campy Record 8/9/10.

Recently one bloke drafted behind us (tandem) and commented that he had never seen a rear derailleur tucked in so close before. He was also impressed that the drivetrain was soooo quiet.

So....if I were putting together a new single......no looking back.....Campy 12/13 baby

[R3awak3n]

[QUOTE=vespasianus;2821281]

Originally Posted by R3awak3n

That would be your opinion. I think the Campag RD looks the best.

Sounds like you own a 12 campy group.

But yes definitely my opinion. However it has been a collective online opinion ever since 12 came out. But again, yes, some people can find the new stuff good looking.

[R3awak3n]

Originally Posted by Dave

I prefer to ride my bike rather than spend a lot of time looking at it. Function rules for me. I bought two Chorus 12 groups last July - no regrets. Best mechanical group for the price.

I've got Force AXS rim brake too - looks fine to me. Still use my Chorus brakes.

Oh yes the classic you cant see it while you are ridding it.

Again, I would still use it and will probably eventually buy it but we are talking about 11 vs 12 and not about function over form.

I have not tried 12 yet so I cant say how much better it is. However I can say that 11 over 10 had much better ergonomics, 12 might shift a little better but will not improve my ridding at all and I do not need an extra gear.

[thirdgenbird]

I agree 11spd is better looking, especially if you mix pre-15 cranks and brakes with 15+ derailleurs and shifters. That said, I think 12spd parts look much better installed on the bike vs just looking at a picture of the individual parts off bike.

I will go as far as saying 12spd can look really good on some frames. Probably ownership bias, but I actually think 12 matches my yeti better than 11. It’s not as pretty, but it’s a better overall match.