Sagan on Discs Except for the Roubaix Stage

[Burnette]

Originally Posted by saab2000

I remember when indexed, then integrated brake/shifter levers, arrived. People balked because they said in the event of a crash you wouldn't be able to shift if the derailleur was knocked out of alignment and then people balked because they said they didn't need shifters integrated with their brake levers. There was resistance to clipless pedals by some folks too.

Today only a handful of holdouts (and more power to them) have eschewed these aforementioned developments. The only thing surprising about Sagan riding disc brakes at this year's Tour is that it didn't happen several years ago. Today's bikes have 11 gears in the back and soon 12, shift better than ever and are lighter and more aero than ever and I don't see anyone wishing they still had hot-foot syndrome with clips and straps.

This resistance to technological advancement by some folks is almost like it's 1990 all over again.

So much this. A few diligent and frequent posting curmudgeons seem to want the world to stop right about now. It won't and we benefit from the continued progress, as you have pointed out. If someone prefers to stay in the past, fortunately products they want will still be around for many, many years.

The biggest thing for all to remember is that the bicycle market is saturated, and through this over abundance everyone involved is being catered to, be it old equipment or the very latest and all in between.

As far as Sagan on discs, the move was already going that way years ago, pro cycling is late to the party.

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by David Kirk

To those that think rim brakes will be removed from the market in a year and then civilized life as we know it will come to an end I'm calling BS. Rim brakes are going nowhere. Want a rim brake bike? Buy one. Wait a year and then buy one.....wait 5 years and buy one. One can still buy 5 speed freewheels and toe clips. I think the rim brakes are safe.

While I agree that rim brakes aren't going away tomorrow, the pace of change for top-level bikes from the major manufacturers is a tad concerning for what that means for component makers going forward. I'm not sure which is the chicken and which is the egg -- are the parts-makers driving this and bike manufacturers are adapting, or are the manufacturers telling parts makers what they want, and how much consumers are demanding discs in all this -- but it is a sign of what's coming in the trickle down that many of these new top level bikes and frames are disc-only, no?

Isn't this just a bit of the canary in the coal mine when it comes to where road bikes are headed? I don't see any new bikes this year touting their placement of the rim brake on the frame for aero effectiveness, but I see a lot of talk about how discs weight/aero penalty is more than offset elsewhere.

It feels less like we'll have a wide-array of options in the future, and more like a mandate from the industry.

[ptourkin]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

That's right: For Sagan, on some stages the speed of wheel changes is less important than for GC riders, but for other stages, wheel change speed is even more important. On flat stages, if a GC rider gets a flat, they only have to catch up to the back of the peloton to get the same time as their rivals. But if Sagan gets a flat in the same stage, he has to not only regain the peloton, but then he has to have time to fight his back to the front of the race if he wants to get sprint points. I expect Sagan to be riding a disc brake bike on mountain stages (which aren't important to him), but riding a rim brake bike on several of the sprint stages (particularly the cobbled ones).

Except that the article and he said he would be riding them on every stage except Roubaix, which I believe is Stage 9.

[corky]

Originally Posted by David Kirk

Thank you for this.

I'll add a little something and then go back info my hole.....for some reason all too many people are looking at discs on road bikes as either an all-good thing or an all-bad thing and they can't seem to grasp that they can be both good and bad at the same time. Compromise I call it. If something is more good than bad....use it. If not.....don't.

To those that think rim brakes will be removed from the market in a year and then civilized life as we know it will come to an end I'm calling BS. Rim brakes are going nowhere. Want a rim brake bike? Buy one. Wait a year and then buy one.....wait 5 years and buy one. One can still buy 5 speed freewheels and toe clips. I think the rim brakes are safe.

The whole chicken little/sky is falling aspect of this is a mystery to me.

As you were.

dave

But I can’t see larger oems developing 2 versions of their newest bikes. ......it’s happening already.......electric only and only disc braked.....of course the likes of yourself can make whatever your client wants, but there’s no way the big boys will entertain that number of SKUs...... v braked mtbs, cantilever braked cross bikes?.........

[Burnette]

Originally Posted by corky

But I can’t see larger oems developing 2 versions of their newest bikes. ......it’s happening already.......electric only and only disc braked.....of course the likes of yourself can make whatever your client wants, but there’s no way the big boys will entertain that number of SKUs...... v braked mtbs, cantilever braked cross bikes?.........

I think it's just a matter of not being beholden to any one brand or brands. If the brand you shop doesn't make a rim brake bike there are tons of others that do and will in the future. Rim brakes aren't going away but you are right in that certain brands and certain models very well may not offer rim.

If that's the case, just go to another brand, there's no shortage of bicycle makers in this world.

[jumphigher]

Originally Posted by saab2000

I remember when indexed, then integrated brake/shifter levers, arrived. People balked because they said in the event of a crash you wouldn't be able to shift if the derailleur was knocked out of alignment and then people balked because they said they didn't need shifters integrated with their brake levers. There was resistance to clipless pedals by some folks too.

Today only a handful of holdouts (and more power to them) have eschewed these aforementioned developments. The only thing surprising about Sagan riding disc brakes at this year's Tour is that it didn't happen several years ago. Today's bikes have 11 gears in the back and soon 12, shift better than ever and are lighter and more aero than ever and I don't see anyone wishing they still had hot-foot syndrome with clips and straps.

This resistance to technological advancement by some folks is almost like it's 1990 all over again.

Yep. Also reminds me going even further back when indexed shifting first came out. So many people saying it was not needed and a waste of time - that a real cyclist didnt need a click to tell them they were in gear. Most here would agree though, they would not want to go back to friction shifting.

Disc brakes are definitely gonna be on all but BSO quality bikes witnin a few years, imo. Like 'em or hate 'em, they're the next big change.

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by Burnette

I think it's just a matter of not being beholden to any one brand or brands. If the brand you shop doesn't make a rim brake bike there are tons of others that do and will in the future. Rim brakes aren't going away but you are right in that certain brands and certain models very well may not offer rim.

If that's the case, just go to another brand, there's no shortage of bicycle makers in this world.

This is just a bit Pollyanna no?

When the Big Three are abandoning rim brakes wholesale, how long do we give it before rim brakes on the road are looked at as some anachronism and something that has to be actively sought out to get? (Ie: Going to Mr Kirk and having him build you what you want.)

I mean, a not insignificant number of shops have their collective heads spin when a Campagnolo-equipped bike walks through the door. And that's current stuff.

[Burnette]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

This is just a bit Pollyanna no?

When the Big Three are abandoning rim brakes wholesale, how long do we give it before rim brakes on the road are looked at as some anachronism and something that has to be actively sought out to get? (Ie: Going to Mr Kirk and having him build you what you want.)

I mean, a not insignificant number of shops have their collective heads spin when a Campagnolo-equipped bike walks through the door. And that's current stuff.

Again, you just have to look to another brand if the brands/models you shopped don't offer rim brakes.

You may indeed have to let go of a fave model or brand but we're awash in bicycle brands that will continue on with rim brakes.

[David Kirk]

Originally Posted by corky

But I can’t see larger oems developing 2 versions of their newest bikes. ......it’s happening already.......electric only and only disc braked.....of course the likes of yourself can make whatever your client wants, but there’s no way the big boys will entertain that number of SKUs...... v braked mtbs, cantilever braked cross bikes?.........

You are of course dead on correct....at some point the Big 3 will move away from certain things and toward others. It makes no sense for them to develop so many SKUs.

In my mind it's little different from the Ford car company saying they will make only SUV's and trucks (with 2 small exceptions). Does this mean I can't buy a station wagon or small 2 door sports car? No...it means I can't buy a Ford. However there are lots of options out there other than Ford.

I don't lose any sleep over the fact that not every bike company will offer every type of bike one might ever want to buy. Supply and demand will dictate that someone steps up and makes what you want. So small companies will fill the niche and your bike won't say Trek on it. Big deal. And if you are in such a small group that none of the smaller companies offer what you want I'm sure you can find a handbuilt guy who will be happy to make what you want.

dave

[Burnette]

Originally Posted by jumphigher

Yep. Also reminds me going even further back when indexed shifting first came out. So many people saying it was not needed and a waste of time - that a real cyclist didnt need a click to tell them they were in gear. Most here would agree though, they would not want to go back to friction shifting.

Disc brakes are definitely gonna be on all but BSO quality bikes witnin a few years, imo. Like 'em or hate 'em, they're the next big change.

I do wonder though as rim brakes must surely be cheaper initially that as you post, they will remain on cheaper models. I would wager that rim brakes will also be on higher end bikes for a few years for the, ahem, older cliental that still want them.

It's a bit like manual transmissions (for which I prefer) in cars, if not enough people order/buy them the faster the move away from them goes.

[tuscanyswe]

Originally Posted by tommyrod74

I’ve been on a Dura-Ace disc bike for 3 weeks now and wouldn’t think of going back if I had a choice.

Wait till they start squeelin .)

[choke]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

This is just a bit Pollyanna no?

When the Big Three are abandoning rim brakes wholesale, how long do we give it before rim brakes on the road are looked at as some anachronism and something that has to be actively sought out to get? (Ie: Going to Mr Kirk and having him build you what you want.)

I mean, a not insignificant number of shops have their collective heads spin when a Campagnolo-equipped bike walks through the door. And that's current stuff.

I would venture to guess that in less than 5 years that no manufacturer (outside of custom frames) will build/sell even a mid-range bike that has rim brakes. That doesn't really effect me as I'm not going to buy any new bike that's not custom.....the last bike that I purchased from a LBS was a Klein Mantra so I'm definitely not one to shop there.

What will affect me is the trickle down aspect; I probably need to start hoarding good quality rims starting now as I think those will be going away as well. I'm sure that there will still be companies making rim-brake rims in the future but the selection will be limited.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by choke

What will affect me is the trickle down aspect; I probably need to start hoarding good quality rims starting now as I think those will be going away as well. I'm sure that there will still be companies making rim-brake rims in the future but the selection will be limited.

Better start hoarding non-disc brake hubs with QR axles as well, since these will also have more limited availability.

I'm sure there will be other un-intended side affects of the shift as well. Didn't we just have a conversation about how few frame pumps are available today? That's a side affect of the popularity of carbon frames (which largely can't fit frame pumps). Maybe there are some out there that still like downtube shifters - how many frames come with downtube shifter bosses today?

[jumphigher]

Originally Posted by choke

I would venture to guess that in less than 5 years that no manufacturer (outside of custom frames) will build/sell even a mid-range bike that has rim brakes.I'm sure that there will still be companies making rim-brake rims in the future but the selection will be limited.

Yes, I totally agree. People saying that there will always be rim brake bikes being made are being unrealistic imo. I can almost guarantee that you wont be able to buy any quality bike (outside custom) with rim brakes. Also the component manufacturers will stop making the brakes themselves (and rims, as mentioned), so there will be little to choose from. Maybe a few companies like Paul Components will still make an esoteric rim brake, but offerings from Shimano and the like will be just low level big box store quality. All this is JMO of course.

Personally I have no problem with disc brakes at all, they are imo a big improvement. I like rim brakes just fine though, and am looking forward to all the uber cheap rin brake related stuff ending up on CL and eBay once large numbers of people make the switch.

[choke]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

Better start hoarding non-disc brake hubs with QR axles as well, since these will also have more limited availability.

I'm not as concerned about those since I think companies like Phil Wood and WI will still make them....but who knows? I do have some extras laying around though and hubs can usually be rebuilt.

Maybe there are some out there that still like downtube shifters - how many frames come with downtube shifter bosses today?

That's one that really bugs me - I prefer DT shifters and I won't own a bike that doesn't give me the option of running them. I couldn't begin to count the number of frames I've seen in the classifieds that I was interested in until I saw that they didn't have DT bosses....