OT: Explaining why I'm leaving the company

[Permanent socks]

Originally Posted by rwsaunders

Age discrimination is very real and with most firms using LinkedIn, Indeed, etc. as application portals, the screening and interview process has become faceless. It doesn't take any skill to search a profile on LinkedIn, add up the years of work experience and do the math in terms of an applicant's age.

When I started looking for a new job, the consultant I was working with parsed my cv down to the last 15 years of experience. I also amended my LinkedIn page to reflect my current cv.

What I was doing before that is largely irrelevant unless I have a many page cv full of incredible accomplishments. Keep it simple and no one will know your as old as their parents...

[AngryScientist]

Originally Posted by Permanent socks

When I started looking for a new job, the consultant I was working with parsed my cv down to the last 15 years of experience. I also amended my LinkedIn page to reflect my current cv.
.

I agree. If you've been in the work force for a while, no need to list the first job on the resume anymore.

[Gwerziou]

Originally Posted by Red Tornado

It's been nearly 20 years since I've looked for a job, and last time around I seem to remember being told not to mention negative things about my current employer as reasons for leaving. That's understandable, but how do you handle that when that is your only reason for leaving? I can't outright lie at an interview, but I do understand being honest about my reasons could easily raise a red flag.

Hoping some in our group have successfully navigated these waters before and can provide some feedback. TIA

"I'm looking for new challenges". Talk about what you're looking forward to; make it positive and change oriented. That got me into my current gig after 15 years at the last one, which I had grown to despise/have massive daily anxiety about.

[FriarQuade]

If you're ready to start looking for a new job, why not lay it out for the current boss and let them know why this isn't working. I mean, what do you have to loose? Seems like you enjoy what you were hired to do, might as well throw the hail mary.

[Red Tornado]

Originally Posted by Permanent socks

When I started looking for a new job, the consultant I was working with parsed my cv down to the last 15 years of experience. I also amended my LinkedIn page to reflect my current cv.

What I was doing before that is largely irrelevant unless I have a many page cv full of incredible accomplishments. Keep it simple and no one will know your as old as their parents...

This is an interesting suggestion. I confess my resume, and LI profile, go back to my intern days. That's like 1987-88!

I might remove some of that old info. However, if I want to show more than my current employer, I'll have to go back more than 15 years. If I include my previous employer, that will go back 21 years. If I show the one prior to that it's 28 years. Might go with current plus last two.

[Red Tornado]

Originally Posted by FriarQuade

If you're ready to start looking for a new job, why not lay it out for the current boss and let them know why this isn't working. I mean, what do you have to loose? Seems like you enjoy what you were hired to do, might as well throw the hail mary.

I know of two people at my current employer who have done that in the past couple years. Local management did not offer to take any of their reasoning into consideration or review. The first one was walked out a few weeks later. The second already had an offer but would have remained if they were willing to have some dialogue. His talking points were ignored and was more-or-less told if you don't like it you're free to go. Both were department managers.

[slowpoke]

Originally Posted by FriarQuade

If you're ready to start looking for a new job, why not lay it out for the current boss and let them know why this isn't working. I mean, what do you have to loose? Seems like you enjoy what you were hired to do, might as well throw the hail mary.

Respectfully, I would not do this unless:

- I was good friends with my boss to the extent that they've appointed me to be a godparent of their child

- my boss 110% held the needs of their direct reports above the company's needs

I would only go as far as to lightly make suggestions for improvement, but never say I'm considering leaving.

[downtube42]

I think the job market has turned around after a long phase of being job seeker friendly. So the nasties who've been keeping it under wraps are unleashing their pent-up angst. For people who like to get stuff done, that's enough to kick off a job search.

When I interview people, I want to know what they're going to be like to work with. If someone volunteers they're leaving a toxic culture, I find that perfectly believable and reasonable and move the conversation on.

If they go on and on with gory details, ignoring my body language and lack of active listening cues, I'm going to start thinking this person is carrying baggage that might interfere with their performance. Sometimes it's a long-winded and clearly rehearsed performance. It's not a hard no at that point, but leaning that way.

This happens more than one might expect.

[carpediemracing]

Originally Posted by Red Tornado

This is an interesting suggestion. I confess my resume, and LI profile, go back to my intern days. That's like 1987-88!

I might remove some of that old info. However, if I want to show more than my current employer, I'll have to go back more than 15 years. If I include my previous employer, that will go back 21 years. If I show the one prior to that it's 28 years. Might go with current plus last two.

FYI my last job app asked for the last 10 years of work. It's a highly regulated company, required to follow all sorts of rules, and falling under all sorts of scrutiny. Not only do they talk the talk, they actually walk the walk, which I love.

I think the idea with the 10 year window is that it's not necessarily discriminating against older people (as one employee stated, "we like grey hair here") but it allows them to see what you've done in recent and relevant times. Some of my coworkers essentially retired from completely different fields and then took on their current job as a new career.

A ten year window would show lack of experience if a young person applied, like college age people wouldn't have 10 years of experience to list. However, one of my coworkers was a sophomore in college. I'm pretty sure he didn't have much more than 4 years of work experience, and he was hired as a fill in for the position I just vacated.

The company I work for looks for people who like working with people. The skillset is not as critical as the company can teach skills and the rules. The company offers enormous back office support.

Such a company might be good for a people person looking to change careers. For example my team leader was a trained chef before he worked at this company. My permanent replacement used to be a school teacher. I came from (most recently) auto service, and I was in IT and had a bike shop.

[Red Tornado]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

I have no idea what your job is but things have changed a lot in 20 years.

You used to be seen as a needy liability if you sought a semblance of work-life-balance, but that's now a usual goal of most employers you actually might want to work for.

You certainly dont owe them a detailed recommendation, nor would I expect they would seek one.

Suffice to say: I'm ready for a change, and I think I'll be a much better fit at your company.

I agree that might be the sentiment in many places in the workforce today, bit IME, that is not the case in manufacturing. I have spent my entire career in manufacturing, except for 3 years at a corporate office. From day one until now the general attitude of four different employers has been, "Get product out the door, and whatever hours you have to work to do that, so be it." I have been told a few times over a 34 year career to "put the family on hold" indefinitely if you want to work here, or "forget the personal life if you want to be successful here, we're trying to run a business." This attitude is still very prevalent in the auto industry, where I spent my first 10 years. At that facility if you worked less than 50 hrs/week they jokingly called you "part time". At my current employer work/life balance is laughed at. Just be glad you have a job. I have several acquaintances who work in manufacturing (auto, medical, etc.) who all experience the same mentality at their workplaces currently. I currently work with personnel from one of the big 3 U.S. automakers, and those people (salaried) are worked to death. I think it's just the nature of that business sector.

On a different note, they hired a new manager for my department who will replace the current guy - the one we all want to see leave. He's moving on to bigger things. New guy has lots of relevant experience and seems to be reasonable, but who know how it will work out once the higher-ups here get ahold of him. I might stick it out a few more months to see how he does and then decide.

[ridethecliche]

When asked why you're leaving, isn't it reasonable to just say that the job has morphed past the job description and the role is no longer fulfilling so you're looking to get back to the things you actually enjoy doing for work.

You've been there for almost 2 decades and you can say that this has been a change that has been going on for some time. You can always let them know that you've been trying to work with management to make changes and things are at an impasse.

On the flip side, if you've been there for that long, you may want to go over your boss' head to see if you can talk to someone. If they don't value your input, then it's time to go. You could also do this once you have a job offer in hand and say that you're willing to stay if they're interested in making a change... but have to know full well they could say yes and then not hold up their end of the deal once you've turned down the new offer.

Any chance applying for a change within your company in your current location?

[djg21]

Originally Posted by ridethecliche

When asked why you're leaving, isn't it reasonable to just say that the job has morphed past the job description and the role is no longer fulfilling so you're looking to get back to the things you actually enjoy doing for work.

You've been there for almost 2 decades and you can say that this has been a change that has been going on for some time. You can always let them know that you've been trying to work with management to make changes and things are at an impasse.

On the flip side, if you've been there for that long, you may want to go over your boss' head to see if you can talk to someone. If they don't value your input, then it's time to go. You could also do this once you have a job offer in hand and say that you're willing to stay if they're interested in making a change... but have to know full well they could say yes and then not hold up their end of the deal once you've turned down the new offer.

Any chance applying for a change within your company in your current location?

Don’t burn bridges. It’s always best to try to leave on better terms than you started. I’d suggest simply saying that you’ve been presented with another opportunity that you want pursue. If you give notice and then take a counteroffer, your loyalty to your employer will always be a question. I’d say once you pull the trigger, it’s done.

[Red Tornado]

Originally Posted by ridethecliche

When asked why you're leaving, isn't it reasonable to just say that the job has morphed past the job description and the role is no longer fulfilling so you're looking to get back to the things you actually enjoy doing for work.

You've been there for almost 2 decades and you can say that this has been a change that has been going on for some time. You can always let them know that you've been trying to work with management to make changes and things are at an impasse.

On the flip side, if you've been there for that long, you may want to go over your boss' head to see if you can talk to someone. If they don't value your input, then it's time to go. You could also do this once you have a job offer in hand and say that you're willing to stay if they're interested in making a change... but have to know full well they could say yes and then not hold up their end of the deal once you've turned down the new offer.

Any chance applying for a change within your company in your current location?

Already changed jobs with the facility ~3 years ago. It was a good move. It doesn't matter what area/dept you're in right now at my place, we're pretty much all struggling.

[Red Tornado]

Originally Posted by djg21

Don’t burn bridges. It’s always best to try to leave on better terms than you started. I’d suggest simply saying that you’ve been presented with another opportunity that you want pursue. If you give notice and then take a counteroffer, your loyalty to your employer will always be a question. I’d say once you pull the trigger, it’s done.

I've never burned a bridge leaving a job, and don't intend to. Maybe right before I retire I'll start to really speak my mind, but until then you just never know...

[djg21]

Originally Posted by Red Tornado

I've never burned a bridge leaving a job, and don't intend to. Maybe right before I retire I'll start to really speak my mind, but until then you just never know...

Just ask yourself if YOU stand to gain anything by speaking your mind or if YOUR interests are better served by speaking out or by biting your lip. Peace of mind is fleeting.