(Rant warning) Rene Herse tires poorly designed for tubeless?

[owly]

Only ever ran extralights in 32, 35, 44, 27.5x48, all black. All on 22mm inner rim with OrangeSealEndurance.

Zero issues with weeping sidewalls, or loose-fit install. I have found all mine a very tight install, requiring a tyre jack.

Started off on the blacks as I had read about the tan-walls (mostly extralight?) being more prone to weeping. Whether that's true for anyone else I don't know, but I tend to see this detail left out in discussion.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by dbnm

I mean no disrespect but I can't figure out how RH tires and Panaracers are made by the same factory.

The Gravel King SS+ I am running have been bulletproof and problem free. Although I did not mount them to my Enve 3.4 AR wheels, I was watching the bike mechanic do it with ease.

Becauee one is made to one 'spec' and the other, RH tire, is made to Jan's(poor?) spec...

[mtechnica]

Originally Posted by Pegoready

Riiight, in theory, but we're learning from this thread you can't even get to the goat heads without flatting a RH tire from weeping sealant or blowing off the rim. Running a tube with sealant inside the tube appears to be the best solution for RH tires.

That’s a bit of an exaggeration, one of the tires never had a problem besides needing hella rim tape lol.

[spoonrobot]

The Panaracer Compass tubeless bead was so bad Jan had to dredge up an obscure specification no one had ever heard of outside of the ISO/ETRORORORO industry bros in order to deny a ton of blow off warranty claims. Personally I know three different people who had blow-offs with SBH/velocity rims that were told directly "this is the first we've heard of this happening" then denied service since the G height was wrong.

If you want to use Rene Herse tires [tubeless] you better know your G height and understand the maximum PSI is a hard stop at 60psi for most sizes. Much of this info needs to be pieced together from Jan's blog posts, responses to instagram comments but a good summary is here: https://sim-works.com/en/news/safety...ility-concerns

I only used Rene Herse tires tubeless in the rear. On a group ride last year a kid had his front BSP blow off rolling up the hill after a 40mph descent. No thanks. I think the bead is just not designed properly in profile as well as tightness.

Now I YOLO and just run WTB or Teravail. Just as good

[Hilltopperny]

Originally Posted by owly

Only ever ran extralights in 32, 35, 44, 27.5x48, all black. All on 22mm inner rim with OrangeSealEndurance.

Zero issues with weeping sidewalls, or loose-fit install. I have found all mine a very tight install, requiring a tyre jack.

Started off on the blacks as I had read about the tan-walls (mostly extralight?) being more prone to weeping. Whether that's true for anyone else I don't know, but I tend to see this detail left out in discussion.

This has been my experience with tan wall EL casings. They weep sealant quite a bit overnight. My black wall EL are not weeping anywhere and neither are my regular casing tan walls.


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[DRZRM]

I've never had difficulty mounting any of my RH tires, though I have a compressor, I don't generally need it and I set the top pressure well under 60 psi for mounting. My first pair of Steliacooms were a mistake on my end, I should not have been riding ultralight casing, but I wanted all black tires. They sealed and mounted fine, but I had several flats seal, and then finally several that would not. Spoke to Jan here and realized they were not appropriate for my size/weight, nor for the rocks on my regular loop. Since switching to either the regular and/or endurance casing, I've had no problems. One endurance tire is losing pressure after more than 1,000 miles, but given the complete lack of visible sealant, I have to assume than I need to re-tape my rim and figure out if it is possible to extract dried sealant from inside of a rim .

I've had no issues with blow offs, nor do I know of any from the folks I ride with on various RH tires, but my ride pressure is WAY below 60 psi, more like 38 for the 42mm Hurricane Ridges currently on my gravel bike.

[benb]

I have yet to ride any of their tires but have been around lots of people who have had them and I've seen lots of issues. I have stuck with the regular panaracers. They're bulletproof, perform great, and save a bunch of money.

By the time you put so much sealant in the RH tire it you probably erase a lot of the difference between the RH version and the Panaracer version, or the difference between a tubeless and tubed setup.

The whole thing with tubeless and low pressures is you don't have to resort to such fragile tires to get a good ride. Lots of MTB tires are stiff and rigid but it doesn't matter at all cause you can run them at 15-20psi without issue and they can be as supple as you want when they have so little pressure.

JH is right about tire pressures IMO but you don't have to buy his whole story.

I run Gravel King 32s right now with tubes and I have no issues with running ~60-65psi in the back and 40-45psi in the front and bashing them off all kinds of rocks and roots. I'm about 170 and I have yet to get a flat doing this, and I don't even bother with tubeless. That's with tubes.

My MTB rims are ancient and they're not sealing up tubeless well anymore so I've run tubes this year. No problem running 25psi back and 20psi front with tubes this year on 26x2.3".

I don't have goat head thorns to deal with though..

[Clancy]

I posted my experience with mounting RH tires tubeless some time back.

Summarized I almost face planted on a downhill descent at speed because of a RH loose front tire.

Never, ever, ever will I run any RH tire tubeless.

Unfortunately much of what I read from BQ is based on opinions disguised as facts.

I started to read the recent articles on tires and tire testing, but halfway through I gave up after seeing how biased it was designed to give the desired results. Given that Jan has every reason to be bias in the testing of his own products that is not surprising.

I do not believe Jan is purposely deceitful, not by any stretch. I just find his statements sometimes to be full of holes.

As far as the tires go.....
Far too many issues reported by far too many people.
Far too much hype and hyperbole without any hard data.
Far too expensive

Finally, given just the controversies along with the fact that there are so many great tires available, why would anyone take a chance?

I’m not. I’m convinced his tire had me a millisecond away from a potentially life threatening accident.

And that’s all I need to know.

[jpw]

Originally Posted by dbnm

My local shop refuses to sell or mount Bon Jon Pass tires on any wheel.

Really? Interesting.

[jpw]

Originally Posted by joosttx

..but...but, doesn't he have a Phd?! ;-)

[MikeD]

Originally Posted by jpw

..but...but, doesn't he have a Phd?! ;-)

PhD = Piled Higher and Deeper

[charlieclick]

For what it's worth, the weeping issues I've had have been with tan sidewall tires.

I don't recall if these were EL casings or not.

This is the response I received from Rene Herse:

It’s not unusual to get some leakage (of sealant or air) initially. Normally, however, any gaps in the casing of the sidewalls will seal up within a relatively short time. Rene Herse tires are handmade and there’s some variation in how much rubber goes into each one, making some more finicky than others.

Sometimes air can leak between the bead and the rim. This is usually the result of a loose fit between the tire and rim. If the fit is not very tight, we recommend adding additional layers of tubeless rim tape (or even gorilla tape) to ensure a very tight seal between the bead and rim. You want the fit to be very tight while still being able to get the tire off when you need to. If the bead can move around, or if air can get past it, you’re sure to lose pressure and, in the worst case, the tire could blow off. Building up the rim bed will help to ensure a secure fit.

For the Bon Jon Pass tires, use 100 to 120 ml of sealant to ensure a good coating and some remaining liquid to seal punctures.

They ended up in the trash.

[joosttx]

Originally Posted by charlieclick

For what it's worth, the weeping issues I've had have been with tan sidewall tires.

I don't recall if these were EL casings or not.

This is the response I received from Rene Herse:

It’s not unusual to get some leakage (of sealant or air) initially. Normally, however, any gaps in the casing of the sidewalls will seal up within a relatively short time. Rene Herse tires are handmade and there’s some variation in how much rubber goes into each one, making some more finicky than others.

Sometimes air can leak between the bead and the rim. This is usually the result of a loose fit between the tire and rim. If the fit is not very tight, we recommend adding additional layers of tubeless rim tape (or even gorilla tape) to ensure a very tight seal between the bead and rim. You want the fit to be very tight while still being able to get the tire off when you need to. If the bead can move around, or if air can get past it, you’re sure to lose pressure and, in the worst case, the tire could blow off. Building up the rim bed will help to ensure a secure fit.

For the Bon Jon Pass tires, use 100 to 120 ml of sealant to ensure a good coating and some remaining liquid to seal punctures.

They ended up in the trash.

Looks like the gravel version of Carrie.

[thwart]

Originally Posted by joosttx

Looks like the gravel version of Carrie.

POTD, at least up to this point.

Love my Compass/RH tires, but I'm riding tubes. No goatheads here...just sharp road salt.

[joosttx]

Originally Posted by thwart

POTD, at least up to this point.

Love my Compass/RH tires, but I'm riding tubes. No goatheads here...just sharp road salt.

A better joke would be... Those tires must be mounted to a Stigmata.