just a reminder: the cheap stuff is really good these days...

[GregL]

Originally Posted by Kontact

The R900 was Cannondale's top of the line road frameset in 1993. The Supersix Evo is today's equivalent. Cannondale cheaped out on the wheels with the Supersix Ultegra, and Ultegra is about $300 to $400 less than Dura Ace. So is the top of the line 1993 R900 a good comparison to the $2100 CAAD, or the Supersix DA that Cannondale sells for $5000? (Or we could say $4600 if we reflect Ultegra pricing.)

OK, I'm happy to discuss this on your terms:

1993 Cannondale R2000 ("top of the line" with Dura Ace): $2,665
2018 Cannondale SuperSix EVO Dura Ace (not top of the line, but rough equivalent to 1993 R2000): $5,000
Increase in price: 88%
Inflation rate 1993 to 2018: 73%

IMO, the SuperSix EVO is a much more advanced bike than the R2000. Yes, the cost increase surpassed the inflation rate, but not by a huge amount considering the advancements in bike technology. It is my contention that today's middle and high-end bikes are better values than those of 25 years ago. Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinion and more importantly, how they spend their $$.

Greg

[beeatnik]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

Also like to add - InCycle in SanDimas - excellent LBS.

AS, I like your style.

A homely bike in homely mountains. Who needs beauty when there's speed and suffering.

[choke]

I'm sure it all works fine but aesthetically the new stuff is a huge thumbs down for me...Campy included.

I ride bikes with vintage parts quite a bit and I feel that the only real improvements in regards to newer parts is that they are lighter and that more gears means smaller jumps between cogs. I think that my Zeus group shifts about 95% as well as my 10 or 11sp; perhaps if I was racing the WT that 5% would matter but since I'm not....

[pdmtong]

Originally Posted by jtbadge

Paddle shifting shifts the RD to the opposite direction that I am used to from the other brands. The thumb shifter motion is awkward. Hood ergonomics were uncomfortable. Pproprietary shift cables and freehub body reduce cross compatibility with the rest of my gear. The clearcoat on the carbon stuff chips easily and looks shoddy. Granted, 11 speed has fixed some of this stuff. And I'm glad I tried it.

I love my campy BUT I also see your points and would not try to convince you to feel differently. Thanks for sharing it.

I think people can adapt to shift patterns but if the hood ergo ais not comfy, and you want 10sp cross-compatibility no wonder campy is out in your house.

[pbarry]

Riding Tiagra 4700 on the gravel rig. Works great. The rest of my bikes are Campy 9 and 10 speed.

[ceolwulf]

New Tiagra as well here on my Scott Solace, because I was too cheap to spring for the Solace 20 and also didn't especially want disc brakes, at least not enough to pay extra for them.

Shifts butter smooth and has been faultlessly reliable. Other than lighter weight and nicer appearance (main complaint is the crank is kinda lame) not sure I could ask for much more. I was really surprised. Thought 105 was still kind of the minimum for good shifting. Not any more.

[acorn_user]

San Dimas? Excellent!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVle0kopfes

[Hilltopperny]

The point of diminishing returns on bicycle gear is pretty evident. It all comes down to preference and what we feel is a good dollar to value ratio. Most modern components work very well from Sora to DA, Veloce to SR and Apex to Red.

I have two titanium all road style bikes that cost significantly different amounts of money on the way. The one is a local boutique no holds barred(at least for me) No 22 drifter build with 8020 hydro and new reynolds ATR carbon hoops with an anodized frame complete with braze ons for rack and fenders and carbon cockpit.

The second is a 2018 lynskey Urbano with a set of Stans aluminum wheels to dt240 hubs I picked up here, bar end shifters, triple 9spd deore drivetrain, mechanical discs, rack and fender mounts as a bombproof all weather and most likely winter bike.

I think both will be great bikes. One has a lot more time invested in the frame building process with all the subtle details which is reflected in the price. I can't wait to actually get some miles on them to compare, but one thing is absolutely certain and that is that the lynskey build when all is said and done will cost me significantly less than the No 22 frameset did.

You can build a great riding bike from all kinds of cheaper (by our standards here) parts. I definitely don't need anything over a certain level of gear aside from the aesthetic since I am not fast nor fit enough get the extra marginal gains from it.

The No 22 is the first bike I've ever spent this kind of money on and I do enjoy the process of having them build it up for me. All in all I spent lots of time debating before actually pulling the trigger on this bike and I'm sure I'll be happy with the end result. A super nice locally made dream bike!

The Lynskey was an impulse buy at a crazy price for a brand new titanium frameset. It seemed to be too good of a deal to pass on. I picked up a few of their older frames on closeout and am very impressed at the quality to dollar ratio you get from them. Lynskey makes a great riding bike and if you catch them at the end of the year you can buy a handmade in the USA frame for a song.

[gemship]

My guess is if the op were to regularly ride this as a only goto bike he would eventually burn out parts. The wheels would be the first to go. I personally don't put out big numbers nor do I weigh much more than 160 and eventually I would have problems with the rear wheel warping. As it's a cheap machine made wheel anyways for a start. So the wheels would be the first upgrade and maybe only necessary upgrade at least for me.

[gemship]

Originally Posted by Kontact

In the '90s a $1200 bike was a pro-level racer. Now it is entry level. That isn't because of inflation, but because we've come to believe that a $3000 bike is perfectly average and a $7000 bike is money well spent.

But $1200 is still a huge investment in a single sporting goods item - we've just normalized the luxury expenditures we make in cycling to the point that we talk about lower end Rolex pricing as if it is the only way of telling the time.


A $1200 bike should feel awesome as it really isn't doing anything so significantly different than what a Nashbar aluminum bike with Microshift 8 speed and Tektro parts would do for $500. We've just lost sight of how much our sport has become the poster child for diminishing returns. In the last 25 years "pro level" bike pricing has increased nearly 10 times. What other common sports, leisure or travel item has skyrocketed that much? Supercars?

Well said but with one caveat. I do think that comparable products made I dunno some time ago. Maybe they were made with more love hence more durable. Like wheels, mgfr's seems to find a way to make things faster and cheaper thru automation but maybe not as reliable.