2024+ Rim brake vs Disc brake catch-all

[Peter P.]

Originally Posted by bcroslin

With that said, not having tire clearance for more than 25's stinks.

If that's the problem then the frame was designed/built wrong.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by reuben

I must have missed a few threads. Is there some controversy regarding rim and disc brakes?

2015 is calling. They want their “great debate” back.

[deluz]

I remember when disc brakes first came out.
I thought they looked ridiculous and overkill and people who rode them looked like "Freds".
Pros had concerns about the rotors being a danger in a crash because they could slice through your skin. They are heavier but I do really like them.
I have carbon rims on my rim brake steel bike and do not like the noise they make.

[d_douglas]

Originally Posted by username

As recently as three months ago, my morning ride was all geezers on rim-brake bikes. But then my buddies started buying new bikes over the summer, and now disc-equipped rigs are the majority. Progress grinds the past to dust, leaving only nostalgia in its wake.

True, and that isn’t a bad thing. I always tell me kids to ‘alwayslook forward’

That said, I only ride disc braked bikes and I just bought a gorgeous Campy rim group on a whim to put in a box and wait for the right frame to come along

[bcroslin]

Originally Posted by Peter P.

If that's the problem then the frame was designed/built wrong.

It was built in 2014 and by Moots so I think they know what they're doing. To be clear, the Campy BRAKES won't accommodate much more than a 25. Those probably aren't built right either.

[unterhausen]

I'm a little surprised that a batch of geezers mostly all bought new bikes. Not that long ago, geezers were riding the bikes they bought in the '70s. And really, those 70's bikes are still good bikes.

If you just go to the bike shop and buy a nice bike, it has disc brakes, there isn't even a question now. Most of us just want to ride our bikes, and a lot of people buy new bikes from time to time. I'm still building rim brake frames, but I have been wondering if that was a good idea for the last 5 years or so.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by PsiSquared

I don't buy the industry conspiracy angle. If people weren't buying bikes with disc brakes, the industry wouldn't have continued selling them. Let's not forget there were several years when both rim brake bikes and disc brake bikes were on shop floors. But that's my opinion. Short of actual evidence of anything, we won't have anything more than opinions.

It's pretty clear that the bike industry wouldn't sell disc brake bikes if the customers didn't want them, and that that would still sell rim brakes if the customers wanted them.

What's less clear is whether the customers overwhelming wanted disc brake road bikes through their own object and rational analsys, or if they had become convinced that they wanted them by external powers of persuasion. Remember, people only bought pet rocks and mood rings because they wanted them, but why did they want them?

There are multiple examples of people being convinced that there should be features on their bicycles that really had no purpose. For example, road tires don't need tread patterns - yet many people won't buy road tires without a patterned tread. So bike companies mold tread patterns into their road bike tires because that's what people want. Road tires are really directional, so why are directional arrows printed on the sides of road tires? A Continental Tire engineer once admitted that the direction arrows molded into their tire sidewalls were meaningless,and the only reason that they were there was to cut down on having reply to customer questions about what direction to mount the tires.

One of the worst cases of this was when hard anodized aluminum rims were introduced, which were pushed especially hard by Mavic. Any materials engineer will tell you that a thick anodize layer can initiate crack propagation, and that a hard anodized rim will crack and fail sooner than a non-hard anodized rim. Yet despite being an objectively poorer product, rim companies were able to sell hard anodized rims for higher prices than exactly the same rim without hard anodizing. I spoke to an engineer at Sun Metal rims about this, and he admitted that hard anodized rims will crack and fail sooner, and that there was really no useful purpose for hard anodizing. So I asked him the obvious question: Why did they still make and sell hard anodized rims? His answer was that was what people wanted, and if they didn't make them, people wouldn't buy Sun Metal rims. (Note: When hard anodized rims cracked, the Mavic warranty department would usually blame the wheel builder, often claiming without evidence that they must have been built with too high a tension - even though they knew it was actually a design defect in the rim. When Mavic started making pre-built wheels, they could no longer blame the wheel builder for rim cracks, which is why no Mavic pre-built wheel ever used a hard anodized rim - even though Mavic still continued to sell hard anodized bare rims.)

[windsurfer]

They haven't won until they re-invent rim brakes.

[charliedid]

Riding bikes with 60 people is a special kind of. no thanks.

[Mr. Pink]

There's something going on beyond braking. I'm not an engineer, but it seems to me that disc brakes have eliminated the need to consider the wheel rim as an integral part of the braking system, therefore freeing up wheel design, and, of course, allowing much more room for larger tires. I would really like to do a serious descent on a top near race bike with the latest in wheel and tire engineering, enabled by disc brakes. Top racers are on 30s, right? That wasn't even thought of fifteen years ago.

[kiwisimon]

Originally Posted by witcombusa

There is nothing new out there that interests me at all, I couldn't care less.

same here. The motor is still the key and my brakes aren't improving that,or anyone else's.

[robt57]

Deja Vue all over again... again

[Philster]

Originally Posted by d_douglas

True, and that isn’t a bad thing. I always tell me kids to ‘alwayslook forward’

That said, I only ride disc braked bikes and I just bought a gorgeous Campy rim group on a whim to put in a box and wait for the right frame to come along

Yup. Cycling’s not a rational pursuit (thank goodness). The people have spoken when it comes to disc vs. rim. I’m not a believer in being a nanny and telling people they don’t know what’s best for them.

[5oakterrace]

Has the industry won?
I suggest that most of our reaction to developments in the cycling world come down to a cost/benefit analysis.

Is said benefit/improvement worth the cost?

And, oftentimes, my evaluation of the "benefit" includes a heavy psychological or emotional component. I just want it - for whatever reason. It is worth it - to me.


And I suggest the industry does a commendable job influencing that psychological/emotional component

[marciero]

Mostly all said, and yes- is like a time warp

Some thoughts-

I think disc brakes are great, make a lot of sense in many applications, in many different segments of the market.

As far as discs specifically for high end road, lets not forget the influence of sponsorship in the pro peloton. Disc brakes were forced on teams-those were the bikes that were provided. That was not a response to customer demand. Some pros even rebelled against this. People want to ride what the pros ride, are influenced by the huge advertising and what appears on shop floors.

One thing I dont see mentioned (not in this thread but certainly elsewhere) is the issues related to carbon rims and rim braking. With discs you dont need a specially engineered surface, special pads, can use thinner wall, they dont wear, etc. No brake pad rub during sprinting, etc.

I still have rim brakes on my rando bike. One of the distinctive features is the thin blade, low trail/high rake fork. That wont work with disc because of the stress on the fork. Likewise through axle is much better design for disc (remember those QR disc front wheels being ejected during breaking? This was addressed by angling the dropouts forward but still.) That notwithstanding, rim brakes and QR have mostly moved to the realm of "old school" in my mind.