New Santa Barbara bike laws

[windsurfer]

Originally Posted by jm714

Really? Everytime I go to SB I take my bike and haven’t had an issue, plus the weather is some of the best in California for riding.

The weather, great.
The riding, good if you know where to go.
The community, ok (except ucsb)
The government, well they care a lot more about tourists than residents.

[dgauthier]

Originally Posted by windsurfer

The weather, great.
The riding, good if you know where to go.
The community, ok (except ucsb)
The government, well they care a lot more about tourists than residents.

They also have *great* uni.

[benb]

I get ads for 2500w+ e-bikes from time to time that ship limited to meet the letter of the law but then have an app that unlocks the full power for “private property use only” and they advertise 40+ mph if I recall correctly.

The whole thing is a blurry Wild West and as a former motorcycle enthusiast there’s no way they’re solving it without a huge regulatory package, inspections, dealer requirements, and tons of money spent.

The line between e-bikes and motorcycles is too blurry and it’s too enticing to modify them to enhance performance and all that. The fact you can build your own and/or swap major components easily and/or order whatever bike you want in the mail makes it all unworkable.

If I really still cared about going that fast I’d get a motorcycle. But I totally get how fun it would be to mod an e-bike. I suspect a bunch of my old motorcycle friends are probably doing this stuff. Especially for pit bikes at the race track, but they’d be legal there.

There’s lots of dumb people riding motorcycles who don’t seem to understand how dangerous they can be but it amazes me how many people don’t realize just how similar bikes can be in their risks and then don’t realize e-bikes can push that risk a lot closer to motorcycle territory. You don’t have to travel highway speeds to get really badly hurt.

I saw this personally. Maybe nobody realized I could do 30mph on my bike but they would think 30mph on my motorcycle was insanity despite me always being head to toe covered in protective gear and think going for a bike ride was totally safe.

[Alistair]

Sounds like there are a few problems...

1. Too many (e)bikes on sidewalks.
2. People doing dumb **** on (e)bikes.

Here's a crazy thought... the solution to #1 is not to restrict (e)biking but to ensure there is adequate public infrastructure for getting around by (e)bike. The reason people ride counter-traffic, cut intersections, etc isn't that they're malicious scofflaws. Instead, it's because the existing car-based infrastructure is not fit for purpose (in the context of cycling).

#2 likely doesn't need any new legislation beyond what already exists. Reckless driving on streets is already a thing - the law is there.

IE, all of the noise the council is making is ripe for abuse by the police and I wouldn't be surprised if that's the intent of at least a portion of council members.

[redir]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

Or until Block Island threatens to secede from Rhode Island again (like they did in response to the state not allowing them to regulate mopeds):

https://www.providencejournal.com/st...s/71602948007/

Last time I was on Block Island was when e-bikes just started coming out. I can't even imagine what it's like there now.

[Alistair]

Originally Posted by benb

I get ads for 2500w+ e-bikes from time to time that ship limited to meet the letter of the law but then have an app that unlocks the full power for “private property use only” and they advertise 40+ mph if I recall correctly.

The whole thing is a blurry Wild West...

100% DOT/NHTSA/CPSC have completely failed in both regulating the use of e-bikes, but also in education about them.

The 3 tier classing doesn't work... Class 3 typically overlaps mopeds/scooters in many states (those that have 50cc rules in place). Class 1/2 are too fast for many users. And there are a whole bunch of "legal" e-bikes that are clearly meant to be cheap motorcycles (instructions on unlocking the full power, crank and seating designs you'd never pedal, etc).

[benb]

Originally Posted by Alistair

100% DOT/NHTSA/CPSC have completely failed in both regulating the use of e-bikes, but also in education about them.

The 3 tier classing doesn't work... Class 3 typically overlaps mopeds/scooters in many states (those that have 50cc rules in place). Class 1/2 are too fast for many users. And there are a whole bunch of "legal" e-bikes that are clearly meant to be cheap motorcycles (instructions on unlocking the full power, crank and seating designs you'd never pedal, etc).

https://www.amazon.com/eAhora-Romeo-...0D28CMN66?th=1

I see lots of bikes like this on the local bike paths, haven't seen this one, it seems ultra insane. 100Nm torque is somewhere between a 600cc and 1000cc sport bike I would imagine with that motor you could make it do 100mph if you rework the drivetrain. I can't remember the name of the popular one I see a lot. It kind of looks vaguely 70-dirt bike styled with dual rear shocks and a vintage moto style saddle.

Last year I was driving my car and I saw a guy doing 35-40mph on a bike like this out in the street while he was towing a trailer.

There is no way that should be legal without a license and you should be subject to motorcycle laws. IIRC mopeds could never do 40mph.

Like I said heck yes I would ride that, but I have a motorycle license and I'd want to ride it in motorcycle gear. Making the pedals even more pointless. They are compliance pedals. I think it would do some good if they required eBikes to have the following to qualify:

- Cap the power and somehow figure out a way to allow a cargo bike to have more power I guess
- Motor cannot have enough power to exceed the speeds allowed for an eBike to eliminate the ability to "unlock" high speed
- Must come in multiple frame sizes
- Must have an adjustable saddle height
- Must have full size cranks/pedals

Non-adjustable seat, vestigial cranks, one size fits all are all things that make a bike smell very motorcycle-ish.

And it has to be enforced at point of sale, none of this buy anything you want and then expect the police to figure it out. Bringing vendors like Amazon to heel will probably be hard though.

[Spdntrxi]

My town is full of the "dirt only" ebikes usually ridden by early teen kids.
Was very pleased to see one kid get it placed on the flatbed tow truck after a police officer pulled him over. Hope his buddies witnessed it.

[prototoast]

Every time I see a teenager riding around recklessly on an overpowered ebike, I consider myself lucky that he's not driving a car.

As for the specific question of Santa Barbara, I agree with Alistair that improved bike infrastructure could help a lot. I've done a fair amount of riding in Santa Barbara, and while some parts of the city have good bike lanes/paths, other parts really do not. And often times, the areas don't connect so getting from A to B often requires traversing some roads that are treacherous to bikes. Personally, I'll still traverse through the road but I understand why others might prefer the sidewalk.

[Alistair]

Originally Posted by benb

There is no way that should be legal without a license and you should be subject to motorcycle laws. IIRC mopeds could never do 40mph.

Yeah, when I say "moped", I'm referring to the carve-out some states have for actual mopeds and/or 50cc scooters. Usually some combination of a speed limit (30mph seems common), limited registration requirements (register the bike, but no "M" endorsement required for operator), etc.

What I kind of want is an electric equivalent of a 50cc Vespa for running errands. I have an M endorsement, but my wife does not (she is a cyclist). I loathe hopping in the truck to drive 2 miles to CVS. But, if it's really cold or hot, I don't really want to walk or pedal either. Something with a tag so I can use the road (the bike lane is inconsistent between my house and the closest shopping center).

That said, an electric kick scooter would probably work too, though its legality in the bike lane is unknown, I don't really want to be "that guy" riding it on the sidewalk. And it's absolutely not allowed in the car travel lane.

[benb]

I just think there's a weirdness where people/legislators just don't understand that there is no difference between a 30-40mph electric bike/scooter and a 30-40mph ICE bike/scooter.

They think cause it's electric it's the same as a bicycle.

My wife was deathly afraid of me motorcycling and if I wanted to buy another gas motorcycle she'd be really scared. But if it was electric and it looked cosmetically like a bicycle she wouldn't be, even if it could do 60mph on flat. It's more about the noise and the appearance than how fast it goes or how dangerous it actually is. Most of these eBikes are way more sketchy than a small gas motorcycle or scooter since the motorcycle/scooter is regulated and comes from a reputable manufacturer.

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by benb

I just think there's a weirdness where people/legislators just don't understand that there is no difference between a 30-40mph electric bike/scooter and a 30-40mph ICE bike/scooter.

They think cause it's electric it's the same as a bicycle.

My wife was deathly afraid of me motorcycling and if I wanted to buy another gas motorcycle she'd be really scared. But if it was electric and it looked cosmetically like a bicycle she wouldn't be, even if it could do 60mph on flat. It's more about the noise and the appearance than how fast it goes or how dangerous it actually is. Most of these eBikes are way more sketchy than a small gas motorcycle or scooter since the motorcycle/scooter is regulated and comes from a reputable manufacturer.

Personally, I would support a policy where all self-propelled land vehicles are capped at 30 mph, but if I vehicle is going to go over 30mph, the lighter the vehicle, the better.

[BumbleBeeDave]

Originally Posted by froze

I was cool with what you said till you made that immature last statement.

You honestly think this doesn't happen, laws passed and then used for profiling? Or that it's immature or somehow improper to recognize it?

I spent 28+ years as a journalist watching police and local governments do their thing in real life every day. I got news for you . . . local laws passed with the obvious (and sometimes fully admitted for the public record) intention of profiling a certain group–almost always some "other" and the "wrong" ethnicity or skin color–is a real life thing. "Driving while black" is a real life thing. If you think it's not, or that it's somehow immature or improper to acknowledge that it happens, then I suggest a reality check.



BBD

[benb]

Originally Posted by prototoast

Personally, I would support a policy where all self-propelled land vehicles are capped at 30 mph, but if I vehicle is going to go over 30mph, the lighter the vehicle, the better.

This would still not remove the need for there to be some sanity around eBikes that do 30mph without pedaling.

As it is today plenty of eBikes barely meet the standard of stable geometry going down a hill or brakes that actually function.

[jm714]

Originally Posted by BumbleBeeDave

You honestly think this doesn't happen, laws passed and then used for profiling? Or that it's immature or somehow improper to recognize it?

I spent 28+ years as a journalist watching police and local governments do their thing in real life every day. I got news for you . . . local laws passed with the obvious (and sometimes fully admitted for the public record) intention of profiling a certain group–almost always some "other" and the "wrong" ethnicity or skin color–is a real life thing. "Driving while black" is a real life thing. If you think it's not, or that it's somehow immature or improper to acknowledge that it happens, then I suggest a reality check.



BBD

I spent 30+ years in local government over a decade as a city manager for three different cities. I can say we never wrote an ordiance with the intent of profiling people.

Can some laws be used for profiling, yes they can, but I never saw it and I never thought I worked with a police chief that would allow it.

As I said before, if you start enforcing licenses, insurance and helmet requirements you are going to run into issues because a lot of disadvantaged demographics are using these things and they will get caught up in enforcement. When that happens then the legislators will have a fit and look to create loop holes or squash enforcement.

These are cheap modes of transportation and for some they are easier and cheaper to maintain than a beater car. And they are under the radar of enforcement.