OT: Declining quality of new cars & trucks?

[weaponsgrade]

I rented a VW Passat ("or similar") and ended up with a Ford EcoSport. It was the most POS car I've ever driven. There was a constant ticking/creaking sound while it was being driven. It was like the whole body was flexing over the pavement. Anytime I wanted to merge onto freeway traffic I had to floor it and pray.

[Ralph]

Originally Posted by zap

What you are looking for specifically is an engine that alternates between direct injection and port injection. Port injection will clean the back of intake valves. Our new Lexus IS350 has the V6 that has this dual system.

All direct injection only engines will have drivability issues if intake valves are not cleaned per manufacturers recommended intervals. More frequent oil changes might help.

Yes....Toyota has used this system on its larger 4 cylinder engines, it V6's and V8's for over 10 years now. (Ones that are direct injected) I imagine it's patented, and other mfg's have to engineer around it to avoid paying royalty fees. A good reason to choose Toyota vehicles if you buy used.

Ford is using a similar system now (but not exactly the same) for it's 2.3, 2.7, 3.5 Ecoboosts, and V 8s now.

I also notice Hyundai/and Kia also use a dual injector system on most of their turbo engines now. Port injection still on their v6s. GM on a few vehicles, and hi end Audi's. Haven't seen it on BMW's.
Haven’t seen it on Honda Direct injection engines. Would avoid. Lots of Carbon buildup at higher miles.

It's a big deal I think. Who wants to walnut blast clean their valves every 50,000 miles or so.

I don't really think cars are less reliable than in the past. Haven't noticed it in my vehicles. Some do take more maintenance. And many of what used to be maintenance replacement parts are now integrated in larger modules, so you have to buy the whole thing.

[DreamInColor]

So buy the last gen tundra with the 5.7, if you’re going to buy one. But one big problem with Tundra’s is payload. Especially if you’re using it for towing.

This is what I did after researching the newer generation Tundra. Luckily, I was able to find one of the last new 2021 (5.7 V8) models in our region just before the 2022 models emerged. I’m hearing/reading nightmarish stories about the new Tundras. I don’t tow, so payload is not an issue for me.

I bought a 2000 Tundra in late 1999. It has 270,000 miles and still going strong. It’s downfall is rust..a lot of it.

[benb]

Originally Posted by Ralph

Haven’t seen it on Honda Direct injection engines. Would avoid. Lots of Carbon buildup at higher miles.

Just looking it sounds like Honda has had some problems with the injectors on GDI engines but did something that worked correctly on the valves.

Honda being Honda I would somehow expect them to have figured out a really ingenious solution.

[tylercheung]

I think pandemic-era production was kinda hit or miss as well, them supply chains weren't doing so hot.


apparently currency fluctuations can also change what gets put into a vehicle too

[paredown]

Originally Posted by DreamInColor

<snip>I bought a 2000 Tundra in late 1999. It has 270,000 miles and still going strong. It’s downfall is rust..a lot of it.

My 2003 Tundra resembles this remark. It had the recall for frame rust, and it got the stupid spray--which I guess kept some rust from starting, but lots of miscellaneous bits--things like the heat shields for the exhaust system, the clamp for the fuel filter etc have all rusted and fallen off. One of these days I may have to rebuild the front end because of rust...

That said, it has been a good light work truck.

I complimented a guy at a work site the other day on his new Toyo pickup. I got an earful about how it has recalls that they can't complete and it has been in the shop more than a few times. That said, he liked it better than the new Nissan Titan his boss gave him previously-it died on the freeway at speed (no warning) and ended up needing an engine replacement...

Maybe rust and no car payment is not so bad...

Re supply chain issues--there are counterfeit parts from China in the supply chain, and generally crap Chinese parts for aftermarket--and this definitely means repairs may or may not last. One I remember were the CV joints/axles for Volvos. If it wasn't OEM you would get vibration at speed and a short life every time, so much so that anyone who knew was getting their originals rebuilt rather than put in aftermarket...

[Matt92037]

Very smart move. That generation Tundra will last an incredibly long time if you keep up on fluid changes, etc.

I did something very similar when I had to buy my wife a new car at the end of last year. I picked up one of the “oldest” “new” cars available, a Lexus GX. The GX is a dinosaur (in a good way) but its old school peak Toyota in reliability.

Originally Posted by DreamInColor

This is what I did after researching the newer generation Tundra. Luckily, I was able to find one of the last new 2021 (5.7 V8) models in our region just before the 2022 models emerged. I’m hearing/reading nightmarish stories about the new Tundras. I don’t tow, so payload is not an issue for me.

[DreamInColor]

My 2003 Tundra resembles this remark. It had the recall for frame rust, and it got the stupid spray…

Ours was “quarantined” after the recall inspection, and the entire frame was replaced on a then 11 year-old truck. It was quite a process — kind of like having the basement replaced in your house. We haven’t had any issues since, but as you point out, many of the connecting pieces to the frame have severely rusted. The engine will undoubtedly outlive the body.

[openwheelracing]

well you bought a Ford and a VW....

[Old Frog]

300K on a '74 Ford Pinto (please don't laugh), only let me down once & that was a pin that slipped in the distributor fixed for less than $100, Parents had a Ford Escort that they put 150K+ miles, sold to a co-work that put another 50k trouble free miles on it. My last Ford truck cost me more in maintenance that all the cars & motorcycles combined over the past 50+ years. I currently drive VW TDIs, certainly not trouble free (but, I know how to fix them). My truck, I went backwards on vis-a-vis technology to an old body style simple proven gas motor & will do the same with the next car. I like being able to fix stuff, or at least understand how to fix it, when it breaks.

[martl]

Originally Posted by p nut

We’ve had the following in the last 10 years:
2013 Outback 2.5 CVT
2017 Sienna AWD
2019 F150 Ecoboost(current)
2022 Telluride (current)

Outback and Sienna had ~80k when we sold. So not too many miles. Both were solid. No trips to the dealer.

Current car/truck have also been solid. The F150 has some weird front sensor issue (for front collision) but the dealer can’t replicate it. Overall, I don’t see any worse quality from the 90’s Honda’s I used to own.

I can’t speak for VW (never owned one since my friend is a diehard VW head but have had numerous problems with every one he’s owned since I’ve known him in our 25 year relationship). I don’t think Ford puts as much R&D into midsize trucks as fullsize. I’d look at the manufacturer’s high selling vehicles and get that model.

The Taos is based on a model that was for the Chinese market which has been modified for the Russian, and NCSA market (no kidding), produced in Mexico, Argentinia, China and (until recently) Russia. It is a very cost reduced half sibling of the Tiguan. I would not compare it to a Subaru, a Lexus or an EU VW quality wise, that would not make sense. I had a new VW or Audi (A4 and Touran) every 2-3 years for 25 years as a much used company car and never ever had a minute of unscheduled shop time.

As for the Escort, I had a 1979 model as my first car and it went well (once it ran; It did not like to start very much and ate batteries) because there was nothing in it that could possibly break.
After 100k km, engine compression had dropped significantly, costing a good 20-30% of its original whopping 54bhp dropping the top speed from 90 to 70 and the 0-60 time from 17sec to "we will eventually get there". Made overtaking lorries an Ayrton-Senna-in-a-Toleman-Hart-worthy effort
For that performance, it ate about 20mpg. The Audis were three times as powerful, twice as fast for 40+ mpg.

Whereas my current 2018 Forester feels like it's barely run in at 135000km. Quality *has* improved significantly. Also, you get what you pay for - pick an inexpensive car with a lot of gadgets, I guess that's like buying a lottery ticket. It *might* go well....
Maybe, just maybe, our own behavior as customers helped that trend

[rice rocket]

Originally Posted by martl

I would not compare it to a Subaru, a Lexus or an EU VW quality wise, that would not make sense. I had a new VW or Audi (A4 and Touran) every 2-3 years for 25 years as a much used company car and never ever had a minute of unscheduled shop time.

That's the sales model though, right?

Lease a car out to people eyeballing a shiny new car, and it all falls apart for the second owner at 36 months so they can sell parts to the dreamers.

I would not hold EU VW quality any higher either. My parents had a 2000 VW Passat (the Audi-based design). All fine and dandy until around 40k miles rolled around and random things failed. Coolant temp sensors, random electrical switches would cause issues (flasher relay, headlight switch, etc.), and rattles started developing quickly thereafter too. Replacing suspension control arms were "a regular service item" for that model (and Audi sibling as well).

A close friend of mine had an E92 M3 and similar shenanigans around 45-50k miles. All the interior plastics broke, shocks literally separated into pieces in my hand when replacing, I've never spent more time working on a car that wasn't mine.

The Germans have that model figured out how to sell the hype twice now for a few decades.

It's funny reading all their justifications for turning all their oil pans plastic or other random critical items for sustainability, when making it right, once, and serviceable as a used part would be the sustainable option. The dealer-locked electrical modules you have to code into your car with a special tool is also somewhat telling of where their heads are really at when it comes to "sustainability"...

[fmradio516]

I think about this a lot, and I know ive said it before on other threads, but it is just crazy to me how BAD new cars are. My ex bought a brand new 2017 Subaru Crosstrek and after about 20k miles(and maybe even earlier?), it started consuming a over a quart of oil between 5k oil change intervals. Even had the low oil light come on the dash a couple times.

At that time, my only cars I ever owned was an 89 BMW 325i and an 04 Jeep Grand Cherokee... Both came to me with over 150k miles on em and even as they hit 200k, they MAYBE burned a quarter quart of oil in the same intervals.

It blew my mind that her basically new car was burning oil. Took it to the dealer for an oil consumption test, because I found out this is a thing with a lot of newer cars, and they said that burning a quart of oil between oil changes is completely normal. So bonkers!! After researching, they do this to make better MPG on paper. So a** backwards!! Theres gonna be a lot of clogged catalytic converters coming..

Anyway, i just bought my 3rd car ever from a friend of a friend for $1000. Its a 2010 Honda Pilot with 210k miles and i love it. Just did a ton of suspension work on it the last two weekends and am super happy with how it feels now. Mechanically the engine is very sound as well. Long live the "old" cars!!

[robt57]

I pulled the hatch closed on our 2022 Bolt via the handle which is on the plastic hatch panel. You gotta give it a good pull to get past the point of it flopping back up. The panel separated from the door. I didn't even bother taking it to the dealer even though it in the 3 yr full warranty. I fixed it my self and added a stainless finishing washer and screw thru the handle where you grab it to the medal frame of the door. The design relies on plastic pressure fasteners and one screw inside the top of the handle no where near or in plane with the direction needed for the force needed to pull it down to close.

STUPIT!

[merlinmurph]

Originally Posted by p nut

Well, just last week, I was riding in my friend’s 2022 Tundra. 30k miles. Driven easy by a 55 year old. The truck starts beeping and he looks down and reads “engine stopped. Pull over” message on the dash. Pulled over, turned it off. Sat for a moment and started it up again. Five seconds later, it turns off again with the same message. This happens 3-4 more times. Finally, starts and stays running. Luckily, not too far from his home. He’ll see what the dealer says.

So buy the last gen tundra with the 5.7, if you’re going to buy one. But one big problem with Tundra’s is payload. Especially if you’re using it for towing.

Thanks for the heads up. I haven't checked their tow capacity and I am very conservative with those numbers because we do long trips.

Anyways, I like their overall reliability and mechanics swear by them. I had a '99 4Runner that was a rock. It just ran.