Vuelta a España discussion (spoilers)

[Alistair]

Originally Posted by br0qn

i don't know, depends on how you weight the race/win. i'd say on the road they're pretty even, wout has 9x tdf stage wins and a green jeresey

IIRC...
WvA: 1 Classic, 1 Monument, 1 TdF points jersey, 10 TdF stages

MvdP: 5 Classics, 5 Monuments, 0 TdF jerseys, 1 TdF stage

Both have a long list of other 1-day wins.

And I was thinking more of the big one-day races, since those get a LOT of press at home (for both of them). Is WvA's training schedule such that he simply can't win as many Classics/Monuments in service of the team's TdF ambitions? I dunno, but it wouldn't be a huge surprise.

Either way, it's all mental masturbation on my part. They're both generational talents who are exciting to watch.

[Jaybee]

Originally Posted by Alistair

IIRC...
WvA: 1 Classic, 1 Monument, 1 TdF points jersey, 10 TdF stages

MvdP: 5 Classics, 5 Monuments, 0 TdF jerseys, 1 TdF stage

Both have a long list of other 1-day wins.

And I was thinking more of the big one-day races, since those get a LOT of press at home (for both of them). Is WvA's training schedule such that he simply can't win as many Classics/Monuments in service of the team's TdF ambitions? I dunno, but it wouldn't be a huge surprise.

Either way, it's all mental masturbation on my part. They're both generational talents who are exciting to watch.

The other thing I find amazing about these two is that they have the Spring Classics presence that they have after a winter of being the two best CXers in the world. Everyone else is doing 6 hour rides in Girona from November -February and they're pinning it for an hour through **** weather.

[mhespenheide]

I'm a fan of Wout, but it would seem clear to me that MVdP has a better palmares. If you want to ask, "who's a better rider", then I think it's a push.

[72gmc]

Originally Posted by Alistair

IIRC...
WvA: 1 Classic, 1 Monument, 1 TdF points jersey, 10 TdF stages

MvdP: 5 Classics, 5 Monuments, 0 TdF jerseys, 1 TdF stage

Both have a long list of other 1-day wins.

And I was thinking more of the big one-day races, since those get a LOT of press at home (for both of them). Is WvA's training schedule such that he simply can't win as many Classics/Monuments in service of the team's TdF ambitions? I dunno, but it wouldn't be a huge surprise.

Either way, it's all mental masturbation on my part. They're both generational talents who are exciting to watch.

Don't forget MvdP has both maglia rosa and maillot jaune in the closet. I realize those are situational leads from early sprint stages, but I still consider those career achievements, just like Wout's maillot roso.

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by 72gmc

Don't forget MvdP has both maglia rosa and maillot jaune in the closet. I realize those are situational leads from early sprint stages, but I still consider those career achievements, just like Wout's maillot roso.

Wout has 5 days in yellow, and won the green jersey.

[72gmc]

Originally Posted by prototoast

Wout has 5 days in yellow, and won the green jersey.

Yes! I'm just saying those leader's jerseys are career achievements in my book.

[alexihnen]

Nice to see three Americans up and around the front. McNulty had a good climb, but wasn't on TV at all. Maybe Sepp will benefit from the longer climbs. The steep gradients are clearly good for Riccitello.

[72gmc]

Seen any Brandy de Jerez black bulls yet? I haven't been able to watch but I always like seeing those along the Vuelta route.

[Jaybee]

Ugh - the poor Lotto Dstny kid had it until he took his hand off the bar to celebrate.

Note to self - when sprinting uphill against Primoz, don't count your chickens until they hatch. (xref: Julian Alaphillipe, among others)

[steelbikerider]

Looks like Sepp's team let him down in the lead-up to the climb. Overhead shots showed only 1 Visma jersey(Sepp) in the first half of the peloton right before the steep parts and the moto camera showed Sepp having to jump to the side to move up as the steep parts started.

[trener1]

Originally Posted by steelbikerider

Looks like Sepp's team let him down in the lead-up to the climb. Overhead shots showed only 1 Visma jersey(Sepp) in the first half of the peloton right before the steep parts and the moto camera showed Sepp having to jump to the side to move up as the steep parts started.

I noticed the same thing and was rather surprised by it, the team was there with numbers and yet Sepp stared the climb pretty far back, having said all that.... He just didn't have the legs today.
He isn't out of it, but he will have to have better days,
Yates, O'Conner, Carpaz and the whole Ineos team on the other hand.....
I am surprised that on the first climbing stage so many of the GC names are more or less already done and dusted.

[Jaybee]

I wouldn't pick today's parcours as something that Sepp is particularly strong on. Of course, he's a great climber but he lacks the punch for acceleration on 15+% gradients like that, especially when the pace hasn't been really high before. There are some monster stages with 4 or 5 climbs before a 20-30 minute climb finish or maybe a tech descent to the finish. That's where Sepp really shines. This isn't me picking him to win, just saying his terrain is still to come.

[jlwdm]

Originally Posted by prototoast

I agree with this, and I don't think anyone here actually disagrees.

Wout has been a phenomenal teammate who has sacrificed more personal ambition than most riders have in their whole careers. In some situations, I think it's frustrated him when he thought he could have gone for a big win, but was called into supporting teammates instead. That's totally understandable, and I think the fact that he has performed so admirably in the face of this frustration is a testament to his character.

I don't find it understandable. If you are on one of the few teams that can win the TDF you need to be there 100% to support the GC. if you don't have a true GC contender then you can do your own thing.

Wearing the yellow jersey or winning a stage should not be a goal for a non GC rider although sponsors like it. These are not important to top GC riders unless it is a time trial or an opportunity to pick up time or bonus seconds.

A year ago it was hard to watch the whining from Pidcock and O'Connor. Too bad they couldn't fine them. Both are very fragile.

For average TDF riders it is easier to win a TDF stage then any other race all year. They get the opportunity to be in breaks and have big leads because no one cares about them.

Jeff

[nalax]

Looks like a new red jersey today!

[Spdntrxi]

Originally Posted by nalax

Looks like a new red jersey today!

I would give it up.. let another team defend it.