The 'Un-Official' Campagnolo Ekar thread

[Velocipede]

Originally Posted by cgolvin

Apologies if already asked and answered, but my search didn't turn one up.

1. Will the Ekar quick link work on 12 (or even 11) speed chains, or does the width difference prevent this?
2. If the answer to (1) is 'yes', when can we expect quick links to be available?

* No, the 13 speed quick link will not work on the 12 or 11 speed chains.
* No, Campy is not making a quick link for 12, 11, 10, 9 speed chains.

I mentioned it a few pages back as to why. They feel there isn't a reason to. That someone riding offroad would have more of a use for a quick link than someone riding on the road.

[cgolvin]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

* No, the 13 speed quick link will not work on the 12 or 11 speed chains.
* No, Campy is not making a quick link for 12, 11, 10, 9 speed chains.

I mentioned it a few pages back as to why. They feel there isn't a reason to. That someone riding offroad would have more of a use for a quick link than someone riding on the road.

Thank you, I thought I had seen an answer.
Related question: will an EKAR chain work on an older system? I see them priced more reasonably than 12 speed chains (at least on a quick search).

[Velocipede]

Originally Posted by cgolvin

Thank you, I thought I had seen an answer.
Related question: will an EKAR chain work on an older system? I see them priced more reasonably than 12 speed chains (at least on a quick search).

No worries. It's a long thread.
I haven't tried it but since you can 1 up other chains, I wouldn't be surprised if it works.

[cgolvin]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

No worries. It's a long thread.
I haven't tried it but since you can 1 up other chains, I wouldn't be surprised if it works.

Thanks! (waits with bated breath for response from @gfk_velo )

[morrisond]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

The problem isn't the internals, it's the rear derailleur. The rear derailleur on a standard shifting system moves in 3 directions. On EKAR and other 1x systems, it moves in 2 directions. Campy calls it 2D vs 3D. That's where the problem is, not the levers and internals.

I would assume one would use a Chorus Rear Derailleur - I believe it's the shift lever that determines how much it moves and how many steps it takes. - Disconnect the cable and you can move the derailleur smoothly from out to in.

[morrisond]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

No, if you use the new flat mount that is a 140mm front with the adaptor, it would work with a 160mm rotor. Same for the rear. It's just like any other adaptor, bumps it up to the next size rotor. NOW, if it's the 160mm front caliper with the built in tabs, then yes, it would be the 180mm rotor. And while Campy doesn't make a 180mm rotor, Magura does. And Magura makes the rotors for Campy. So you could easily use one of theirs.

Not according to assolutions.ca

"Description
This adapter allows you to use a flat mount caliper on a frame or fork that was designed using the IS mount standard.

Compatibility:
Rear IS mount (Frame): This adapter will only work with 160 mm. rotors.
Front IS mount (Fork): This adapter will only work with 180 mm. rotors.
Tested with Shimano, SRAM and Campagnolo flat mount calipers. This adapter is intended to be used with 140 mm. calipers."

A little while back when I was trying to convert my IS winter bike to Campy hydro I dug into this a lot and the Website is right when I looked at my fork and measured it.

I forgot about Magura 180's - Thanks - I might still try to make that bike into an EKAR bike and as it's my load it up/winter bike 180 on the front might be a good idea.

Crap those Magura Rotors are heavy 194G for an 160mm

[thirdgenbird]

Originally Posted by morrisond

I would assume one would use a Chorus Rear Derailleur - I believe it's the shift lever that determines how much it moves and how many steps it takes. - Disconnect the cable and you can move the derailleur smoothly from out to in.

The derailleur determines how far to move the chain based on how much cable is pulled.

[morrisond]

Originally Posted by thirdgenbird

The derailleur determines how far to move the chain based on how much cable is pulled.

Yes based on the indexing in the Shifter.

I doubt Campy is changing the ratio of how far the Derailleur moves per mm of cable pulled- then they would need new 13S 2X derailleur's as well.

That would not make sense unless they need to do it from an engineering standpoint.

[Dave]

Campy has changed the cable pull, per shift, every time they changed speeds from 10-11-12. Don't expect the cable pull on a 13 speed shifter to be the same as a twelve. There's only so much total pull you can get, so when the number of pulls goes up, the travel per pull will go down, even if only a small amount. For example, an 11 speed shifter, connected to a 10 speed RD comes up short on total travel for an 11 speed cassette, so it also means the RD actuation ratio is not the same as 10 speed.

I have a dial indicator cable pull measuring device that can measure in .001 inch increments. So far, I've only used it to measure the cable pulls on 10 and 11 speed RDs.

[thirdgenbird]

Originally Posted by morrisond

Yes based on the indexing in the Shifter.

I doubt Campy is changing the ratio of how far the Derailleur moves per mm of cable pulled- then they would need new 13S 2X derailleur's as well.

That would not make sense unless they need to do it from an engineering standpoint.

You were suggesting using ekar shifter guts with a chorus RD which your require 12 and 13 speed to have the same ratio. Zero benefit to this for campag. The derailleurs are totally different design and the index ring and cable spool likely need to be different anyway. The index ring for obvious reasons and the spool because there is a finite amount of space for cable.

[morrisond]

Originally Posted by thirdgenbird

You were suggesting using ekar shifter guts with a chorus RD which your require 12 and 13 speed to have the same ratio. Zero benefit to this for campag. The derailleurs are totally different design and the index ring and cable spool likely need to be different anyway. The index ring for obvious reasons and the spool because there is a finite amount of space for cable.

No it wouldn’t. I don’t doubt that the amount of cable pulled is different for each click for the different speeds however I would be surprised if the ratio of how the RD moves for each mm of cable pulled changes.

If one click on 12s is 1mm of Cable pull which equals 3mm of lateral in the back or whatever it is then 1 click on 13s = 12/13 of 1 mm in cable pull and 12/13 of 3mm in the back assuming that the distance between the small gear and large gear are the same.

As long as the ratio of movement is the same it should work.

It just needs someone to try it.

Yes cable and index rings move the same distance just 12/13 of the distance before - probably just closer spaces.

[Velocipede]

Originally Posted by morrisond

Not according to assolutions.ca

"Description
This adapter allows you to use a flat mount caliper on a frame or fork that was designed using the IS mount standard.

Compatibility:
Rear IS mount (Frame): This adapter will only work with 160 mm. rotors.
Front IS mount (Fork): This adapter will only work with 180 mm. rotors.
Tested with Shimano, SRAM and Campagnolo flat mount calipers. This adapter is intended to be used with 140 mm. calipers."

A little while back when I was trying to convert my IS winter bike to Campy hydro I dug into this a lot and the Website is right when I looked at my fork and measured it.

I forgot about Magura 180's - Thanks - I might still try to make that bike into an EKAR bike and as it's my load it up/winter bike 180 on the front might be a good idea.

Crap those Magura Rotors are heavy 194G for an 160mm

Given his second sentence, I think the first is a typo. no adaptor is going to push it up 40mm. That's really odd. PLUS he'd never sell any. Cause everyone is wanting an adaptor for a front road/gravel fork.

[yinzerniner]

Originally Posted by morrisond

No it wouldn’t. I don’t doubt that the amount of cable pulled is different for each click for the different speeds however I would be surprised if the ratio of how the RD moves for each mm of cable pulled changes.

If one click on 12s is 1mm of Cable pull which equals 3mm of lateral in the back or whatever it is then 1 click on 13s = 12/13 of 1 mm in cable pull and 12/13 of 3mm in the back assuming that the distance between the small gear and large gear are the same.

As long as the ratio of movement is the same it should work.

It just needs someone to try it.

Yes cable and index rings move the same distance just 12/13 of the distance before - probably just closer spaces.

Only caveat is that the RD design might not make your assumptions true. See: SRAM Exact Actuation and X-actuation, where both are 11s but the cable pull ratios are different.

A tanpan-like device might be needed in this case.

[Velocipede]

I just looked and the 180mm comment is for IS tab mount, not IS post mount forks. Hardly anyone makes carbon forks like that anymore. If it were a steel fork someone was custom making, it wouldn't be hard to ask for it to be modified. But I'd be surprised if you couldn't do a a 160mm on the front.

[morrisond]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

I just looked and the 180mm comment is for IS tab mount, not IS post mount forks. Hardly anyone makes carbon forks like that anymore. If it were a steel fork someone was custom making, it wouldn't be hard to ask for it to be modified. But I'd be surprised if you couldn't do a a 160mm on the front.

Yes that bracket is for IS tab mount. I have Post Mount brakes on an Is tab mount bike front and back and the rear Bracket is 10mm higher than the front with 160mm Discs.

Dimensionally you probably can't make an Flat Mount to ISO Tabmount bracket low enough to work with 160mm on the front.