OT: Electric Vehicles--anyone driving them or seriously looked at them?

[HenryA]

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

1) Landlords will eventually pay to install EV charging ports because it will make economic sense for them to do so. As EV cars become more popular, the lack of charging facilities will be like a lack of high speed internet -- it will reduce the marketability of their apartment.

2) The average price of a new car in the U.S. is around $47k. The average price of a new EV car is about $65k, so they are not even close to triple or quadruple.

3) The installation of charging ports in apartments would likely have only a small effect on rent levels, as the costs can be amortized over several years.

Religion remains a strong influence in society even when its teachings are clearly irrational and wrong.

And for those who don’t believe, let them eat cake!

[Mr. Pink]

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

1) Landlords will eventually pay to install EV charging ports because it will make economic sense for them to do so. As EV cars become more popular, the lack of charging facilities will be like a lack of high speed internet -- it will reduce the marketability of their apartment.

2) The average price of a new car in the U.S. is around $47k. The average price of a new EV car is about $65k, so they are not even close to triple or quadruple.

3) The installation of charging ports in apartments would likely have only a small effect on rent levels, as the costs can be amortized over several years.

Wow. I think you have never lived near the poverty line. Paycheck to measly paycheck. There are millions of people who rent apartments not because of "marketability", but because those apartments are as good a value that they can find for that paycheck. And those rents have been steadily rising since '08. This would be a serious shock to their tightrope finances.
I live in an older condo complex in a very nice Ct. suburb. It's a constant struggle maintaining the place, like most older homes. Recently we had to put new roofs on all the buildings. That resulted in a five year surcharge of an extra 250 dollars a month for me. That's just roof's, a common fix. I can only imagine the uproar from the seniors if somebody proposes a ten thousand dollar per unit charger, with future maintenance factored in. We ain't rich.
Your big tell is claiming that the average price of a new car is 47 grand. Are you sure? Maybe, yeah, in my neighborhood, where bankers breed, but drive fifty miles north into rural places, or deep into older cities, and I highly doubt that. I bought a Honda HRV a few years ago for 23 grand, and it's fine, and will last years. But, we can get into a whole discussion how spending 50 grand on a vehicle is why Americans are asset poor and will never retire, but, we won't.

[Kirk007]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

Fine with me. But, the governor of California and other politicians are mandating EV use by law. In just over ten years, all of California will not be able to buy a gas powered vehicle, by decree. No choice.

We'll see. Policies easily change. BUT, without declarations like these there's little incentive for anyone - manufacturers, DOTs, engineers ... to figure out how to move us to more sustainable ways of living. Continuing to rely on fossil fuels and offering hopes and prayers for the millions currently being displaced or seriously impacted by climate change today, and the probably billions who will be impacted in the future - I don't know maybe some are willing to just say sucks to be you to that impacted population. I'm not.


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[MikeD]

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

As stated, they will eventually pay to install chargers. At present, when only 1% of the cars on the road are EV, it may not make sense to install them.

It doesn't have to be a charging station like a public facility. It can be as simple as what people have in their homes, with assigned parking spaces.



What does the construction cost of a parking spot at a BART station have to do with EV chargers in an apartment building?

It is totally possible that a new type of battery will be developed that can be fully charged in 5 minutes or so, then the gas station model would work out best and we'd not waste billions building car chargers everywhere. Also, fuel cell vehicles fit this efficient model. There are other types of fuel cells other than hydrogen (alcohol and even gasoline). The whole thing is BS anyway because unless the power plant generates power from green energy, EVs don't move the global warming needle all that much over hybrid vehicles and shouldn't be forced on the public.

[MikeD]

Originally Posted by corkycalvin

I’m pretty sure the ban of ICE in California will move up the courts and maybe end up in the Supreme Court. Does the governor have that much power to implement a ban? In California, a car is needed outside of urban areas and most people can’t afford EV’s. Grabbing my popcorn to see how this plays out

Maybe but they have already banned diesel trucks older than 2010, and there are still 200,000 of them in the state https://www.kcra.com/article/califor...nuary/42357986

[Mr. Pink]

Originally Posted by Kirk007

We'll see. Policies easily change. BUT, without declarations like these there's little incentive for anyone - manufacturers, DOTs, engineers ... to figure out how to move us to more sustainable ways of living. Continuing to rely on fossil fuels and offering hopes and prayers for the millions currently being displaced or seriously impacted by climate change today, and the probably billions who will be impacted in the future - I don't know maybe some are willing to just say sucks to be you to that impacted population. I'm not.


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Oh, I agree. But we really need to get serious as to how to fix this problem, and somebody has to be an adult and tell us how much it will cost, which may be astronomical in the EV space alone, and, even then, how the economy will be affected. But, most of our leaders are bickering children who are narcissistic and in love with their own power and career possibilities on the other side of the revolving door, and most citizens are in love with their pickups and guns and football and fast food, and relatively comfortable existence to the rest of humanity. They ain't giving that up easily.

Are you familiar with Louis CK? He's back. Just did an interview with Joe Rogan. He goes off on this topic (the unreal state that Americans live in) near the end of that podcast. It's brilliant. I like that guy.

[Kirk007]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

Oh, I agree. But we really need to get serious as to how to fix this problem, and somebody has to be an adult and tell us how much it will cost, which may be astronomical in the EV space alone, and, even then, how the economy will be affected. But, most of our leaders are bickering children who are narcissistic and in love with their own power and career possibilities on the other side of the revolving door, and most citizens are in love with their pickups and guns and football and fast food, and relatively comfortable existence to the rest of humanity. They ain't giving that up easily.

Are you familiar with Louis CK? He's back. Just did an interview with Joe Rogan. He goes off on this topic (the unreal state that Americans live in) near the end of that podcast. It's brilliant. I like that guy.

well said. I'll look for the podcast.

[pasadena]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

Fine with me. But, the governor of California and other politicians are mandating EV use by law. In just over ten years, all of California will not be able to buy a gas powered vehicle, by decree. No choice.

What's driving EV sales is not simply gov mandates. It's sales.

Economics and market competition have made companies go all-in.
Everyone severely underestimated the consumer demand for PHEV's and EV's. They are all aggressively trying to fullfill that market void.

CA (and 15 other states are considering the same) new car sales - EV and PHEV by 2035
Used car sales will remain 'everything is for sale as always'. Petrol cars and truck will be around and kicking for a long time.

The EU has banned ice sales by 2035, UK by 2030

Every automaker has set goals of making at least half, if not all new car sales to be ev's by 2030.
GM stated they will be 100% ev sales by 2030 (uh-huh...)

VW's last ice platform will be in 2026. All ice development has basically stopped at VAG and they have a 50-70% global ev sales by 2030 goal.

Every automaker has similar benchmarks. This is a global shift. CA may be in line with Europe, but this is going to happen whether CA sets a goalpost or not.

[MikeD]

Originally Posted by pasadena

What's driving EV sales is not simply gov mandates. It's sales.

Economics and market competition have made companies go all-in.
Everyone severely underestimated the consumer demand for PHEV's and EV's. They are all aggressively trying to fullfill that market void.

CA (and 15 other states are considering the same) new car sales - EV and PHEV by 2035
Used car sales will remain 'everything is for sale as always'. Petrol cars and truck will be around and kicking for a long time.

The EU has banned ice sales by 2035, UK by 2030

Every automaker has set goals of making at least half, if not all new car sales to be ev's by 2030.
GM stated they will be 100% ev sales by 2030 (uh-huh...)

VW's last ice platform will be in 2026. All ice development has basically stopped at VAG and they have a 50-70% global ev sales by 2030 goal.

Every automaker has similar benchmarks. This is a global shift. CA may be in line with Europe, but this is going to happen whether CA sets a goalpost or not.

If the price of gasoline drops back down, there will be a lack of demand for EVS, unless they can address the cost, range, charging and other issues. People have short memories for this sort of thing.

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Of COURSE but the long pole in the tent(what holds it all up) is CONVENIENCE.
I could probably go with ZERO car of any kind but why would I?

I could walk those 6 blocks to the grocery, and carry 3-4 bags back, when it's 3 degrees outside, like it was yesterday, and then do it again...

I could probably get to my grand daughter's house to nanny w/o a car...be tough to get them to softball practice but with enough time and $, I could do that but...why would I?

I could make due with an EV but it would be......harder, more time consuming, less convenient, way more expensive...

The question isn't if it's possible or not but how to make EVs as convenient, easy as an ICE.


Yup, kinda like the helmet or disc brake thread...getting criticized for not making the same decisions as somebody else. "Of COURSE and EV will work for you", 'get with the program'(my comment but that's what it feels like with 'some')...

Again, no one is trying to convince you to buy an EV. If it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you. My wife and I just re-visited the issue ourselves and decided not to buy an EV. We will keep our Audi diesel for a few more years. But, that doesn't mean that an EV can't fill the role that the Audi currently fills.

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

In Boulder, along 30th street, it's turning into a 'concrete canyon' with all the brand new, 4 story(Boulder height laws, might be 5 stories) new apartment buildings with 'largely' unoccupied retail first floors. A lot have underground parking, some do not and NONE have EV charging stations.....

Actually, many of them do. Two Nine North at 1955 30th, for instance, has complimentary EV chargers.

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

Wow. I think you have never lived near the poverty line. Paycheck to measly paycheck. There are millions of people who rent apartments not because of "marketability", but because those apartments are as good a value that they can find for that paycheck. And those rents have been steadily rising since '08. This would be a serious shock to their tightrope finances.

Many, many people in the U.S. live paycheck to paycheck, including many, many homeowners. That doesn't mean that they don't consider amenities when they rent an apartment or buy a home. (And, yes, I lived below the poverty line for more than a decade.)

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

I live in an older condo complex in a very nice Ct. suburb. It's a constant struggle maintaining the place, like most older homes. Recently we had to put new roofs on all the buildings. That resulted in a five year surcharge of an extra 250 dollars a month for me. That's just roof's, a common fix. I can only imagine the uproar from the seniors if somebody proposes a ten thousand dollar per unit charger, with future maintenance factored in. We ain't rich.

Presumably, the owners in your condo complex decided as a group to fix the roof, and implement the $250/month surcharge, and they would likewise decide as a group if they wanted to install EV chargers? Sounds pretty simple -- don't install chargers if you don't want them.

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

Your big tell is claiming that the average price of a new car is 47 grand. Are you sure?

That's an easily verifiable statistic.

Originally Posted by MikeD

It is totally possible that a new type of battery will be developed that can be fully charged in 5 minutes or so, then the gas station model would work out best and we'd not waste billions building car chargers everywhere. Also, fuel cell vehicles fit this efficient model.

Yes, that might happen. It's not uncommon for interim technologies to come and go, and charging stations might fall in that category. That doesn't mean they can't or won't serve a useful purpose for some amount of time.

[buddybikes]

Originally Posted by Kirk007

We'll see. Policies easily change. BUT, without declarations like these there's little incentive for anyone - manufacturers, DOTs, engineers ... to figure out how to move us to more sustainable ways of living. Continuing to rely on fossil fuels and offering hopes and prayers for the millions currently being displaced or seriously impacted by climate change today, and the probably billions who will be impacted in the future - I don't know maybe some are willing to just say sucks to be you to that impacted population. I'm not.


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We need to drive less, tighten our homes up, plant a tree if you can.

[Mr. Pink]

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

Again, no one is trying to convince you to buy an EV. If it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you. My wife and I just re-visited the issue ourselves and decided not to buy an EV. We will keep our Audi diesel for a few more years. But, that doesn't mean that an EV can't fill the role that the Audi currently fills.

Yes, they are. They are mandating it. By decree. I fail to see where choice comes in.

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

Many, many people in the U.S. live paycheck to paycheck, including many, many homeowners. That doesn't mean that they don't consider amenities when they rent an apartment or buy a home. (And, yes, I lived below the poverty line for more than a decade.)

Again, you imply there is some sort of choice in the matter. Most are happy to have a safe, clean roof over their head they can afford, which, in many places, require more than half of gross income to find.

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

Presumably, the owners in your condo complex decided as a group to fix the roof, and implement the $250/month surcharge, and they would likewise decide as a group if they wanted to install EV chargers? Sounds pretty simple -- don't install chargers if you don't want them.

But, in effect, we may have to, if we want to drive anywhere. How else will we be able to deal in the new electric only world? Besides, you have to fix the roof. My ceiling was leaking.

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

That's an easily verifiable statistic.

Go ahead. I'll wait. I find it a little hard to believe. But, then again, there's pickup trucks out there that are approaching six figures, which is super bizarre, but, that's America.

[bikinchris]

Electric vehicles that charge more quickly will more than likely FREE us from the gas station.
Since you don't have to dig to place big tanks underground and you could do two things at once. Think of this: you're on a road trip and you're hungry. Normally, you would either gas up and buy junk food or nasty gas station food and scarf it down in the car. Or gas up the car, then drive to a better quality lunch somewhere else. But with electric vehicles, better quality restaurants can install charging stations and you stop for lunch at the restaurant and eat lunch while your car is charging.
You can also be on an off road trail somewhere and have a solar powered charging station somewhere electricity is NOT possible.

[jawnzcapital]

"Non-luxury prices also rose, but not as dramatically. On average, car shoppers in the non-luxury segment paid $410 above sticker price, a slight increase from October. The average non-luxury car sold for $44,584."

https://www.kbb.com/car-news/average...from%20October.

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

Yes, they are. They are mandating it. By decree. I fail to see where choice comes in.

You stated you live in CT. Are you being forced to buy an EV now? Are there any plans to ban ownership of ICE cars in the future?

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

Again, you imply there is some sort of choice in the matter. Most are happy to have a safe, clean roof over their head they can afford, which, in many places, require more than half of gross income to find.

I rented apartments for years. I always had a choice selecting my apartment.

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

But, in effect, we may have to, if we want to drive anywhere. How else will we be able to deal in the new electric only world? Besides, you have to fix the roof. My ceiling was leaking.

Do it or don't do it. It's your choice.

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

Go ahead. I'll wait. I find it a little hard to believe. But, then again, there's pickup trucks out there that are approaching six figures, which is super bizarre, but, that's America.

Gee, that took about 10 seconds:

https://www.kbb.com/car-news/average...e-sets-record/