Ot - usmnt

[goonster]

Originally Posted by wc1934

Can you think of others which are more intense?

None of the international rivalries, nor anything in U.S. sports, hold a candle to the top soccer derbies, e.g. Celtic/Rangers, Independiente/Racing (allegedly more intense than Boca/River), Galatasaray/Fenerbahce.

Imagine the Vet full of boozed-up Philly fans, throwing batteries at J.D. Drew, but with 100+ years of resentment, politics and sectarianism. Twice a year (minimum), every year.

[citycyclist247]

I’m a bit apathetic about sports such as football/soccer but I just don’t think the nation has a means to help more youth players get chances. Until that happens they’ll never be able to compete with other teams.

[echappist]

Originally Posted by citycyclist247

I’m a bit apathetic about sports such as football/soccer but I just don’t think the nation has a means to help more youth players get chances. Until that happens they’ll never be able to compete with other teams.

If you are apathetic, how would you know about the latest steps taken to foster greater involvement of youth players and away from the pay-to-play model? Admittedly, even with these steps, the U.S. is nowhere near where things are in Germany and the UK, but it's a step in the right direction.

[Ntxsage]

Originally Posted by echappist

If you are apathetic, how would you know about the latest steps taken to foster greater involvement of youth players and away from the pay-to-play model? Admittedly, even with these steps, the U.S. is nowhere near where things are in Germany and the UK, but it's a step in the right direction.

Germany may have a claim to a world class player development model, but UK? American soccer is still trying to shed the influence of UK coaching philosophies. Did most the top talent in EPL start out in English academies?

Pay to play is unfortunately alive and well at the youth level. Soccer in the states is still a rich kid’s sport. Too many coaches and clubs make their considerable living from parent wallets, and the tiny # of Academy teams only make soccer affordable for ages where the kids are already developed.

When the USMNT is full of kids who went pro by 15 and were legitimately scouted on their own merit, and not because their parents flew them all over Europe (or had dual citizenship), then the gap will close. Until then, we should be happy to beat Mexico our fair share and consistently qualify out of Concacaf.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Ntxsage

Germany may have a claim to a world class player development model, but UK? American soccer is still trying to shed the influence of UK coaching philosophies. Did most the top talent in EPL start out in English academies?

Pay to play is unfortunately alive and well at the youth level. Soccer in the states is still a rich kid’s sport. Too many coaches and clubs make their considerable living from parent wallets, and the tiny # of Academy teams only make soccer affordable for ages where the kids are already developed.

When the USMNT is full of kids who went pro by 15 and were legitimately scouted on their own merit, and not because their parents flew them all over Europe (or had dual citizenship), then the gap will close. Until then, we should be happy to beat Mexico our fair share and consistently qualify out of Concacaf.

I understand a lot of the frustration with the current youth development system but most US youth sports across the board suffer from the same issue: financial support. Essentially it has to come from somewhere. Coaching, fields, equipment, insurance, referees/umpires etc. The truth is most US youth sports' financial underpinnings involve "pay to play."

Nobody complains about the USWNT & it uses the exact same system.

Of note, 99% of coaches (regardless of the sport) don't make a lot of money. In fact, it's not even their day job. They coach because they love the sport & enjoy impacting kids' lives in a positive manner.

I'm not saying it's fair or right. It's not. Lots of kids with potential are overlooked.

[Beldar77]

Originally Posted by BobC

I understand a lot of the frustration with the current youth development system but most US youth sports across the board suffer from the same issue: financial support. Essentially it has to come from somewhere. Coaching, fields, equipment, insurance, referees/umpires etc. The truth is most US youth sports' financial underpinnings involve "pay to play."

Nobody complains about the USWNT & it uses the exact same system.

Of note, 99% of coaches (regardless of the sport) don't make a lot of money. In fact, it's not even their day job. They coach because they love the sport & enjoy impacting kids' lives in a positive manner.

I'm not saying it's fair or right. It's not. Lots of kids with potential are overlooked.

^^^^^ this is so true about other sports too ^^^^^. I get frustrated that us soccer complainers don't typically see that. AAU basketball has looooong been pay to play unless you are "scholarshipped" in. Travel baseball even worse.

Besides Brazil none of the huge landmass countries excel at soccer / football development. The english / european club model development system works in small countries mostly because of history and small size. Edit - and the profit in the system lies within the clubs.

[Ntxsage]

Basketball has only recently turned into a money game where a huge # of adults make their primary income coaching youth players. When I was a kid AAU played mostly regional ball and had volunteer coaches. Many of the best teams in any urban zip code were still to be found in the schools, and most all the kids aspired to play for their school teams. The AAU kids may have gotten free shoes, but that was about it. It definitely wasn’t an environment where only rich kids played AAU. Ever wonder why Europe is now rapidly catching up American basketball, and American basketball kids are thought to be lacking fundamentals skills compared to Europeans?

And BobC, people do complain about USWNT. We had a 30 year head start on the world with title IX, but the writing is on the wall that the world has caught up.

And while I 100% agree many coaches are good people and enjoy the teaching and mentoring aspects of coaching, I don’t know how you come up with 99% don’t make good money at it. Maybe you meant 99% of rec level coaches?

Ive coached myself, and I know a few competitive youth coaches. They’re not bashful about letting folks know they do quite well. My kid plays basketball on a team where one of the dads is a club soccer coach. He told us about a rival club wanting to poach him for 200k, but he stayed put because he’s making near that where he is.

From the skills trainers, speed & agility trainers, travel clubs and even psychologists and nutritionists now getting into the act, youth sports at competitive levels is big business. Its getting bigger and more commercialized every year (and at earlier and earlier ages).

The money does have to come from somewhere - why not taxes and schools? That’s our advantage over Europe. 99% of youth coaches could be volunteers, and 99% of youth players could be exposed to great local competition regardless their parents tax brackets.

[Ntxsage]

Originally Posted by Beldar77

^^^^^ this is so true about other sports too ^^^^^. I get frustrated that us soccer complainers don't typically see that. AAU basketball has looooong been pay to play unless you are "scholarshipped" in. Travel baseball even worse.

Besides Brazil none of the huge landmass countries excel at soccer / football development. The english / european club model development system works in small countries mostly because of history and small size. Edit - and the profit in the system lies within the clubs.

The difference is the international clubs profit when they sell developed players to other clubs, or they sell tickets to games. They don’t make 100% of their profits from parents who pay thousands for their kids to experience sports tourism.

[Beldar77]

Originally Posted by Ntxsage

The difference is the international clubs profit when they sell developed players to other clubs, or they sell tickets to games.

And that is the result of history /geography and the fact that every town has a Pro team.

[Ntxsage]

Originally Posted by Beldar77

And that is the result of history /geography and the fact that every town has a Pro team.

Agree! So we don’t have that here. We have MLS, but it’s not like those clubs have deep roots in their communities where kids grow up dreaming of playing for their hometown club.

So how do we build a club culture where the communities feel they ARE the club? Does Philly love the Eagles because business savvy ex players formed “elite” youth leagues so rich kids could travel around the country playing travel football against other rich kids?

Do we already have local institutions with generations of culture which communities DO rally around?

With a little vision, schools could be feeding our professional sports pipeline. Turning our kids over to the profiteers doesn’t seem to be producing great outcomes for anyone except those whose disposable income buys access to professional coaching they wouldn’t otherwise get.

[wc1934]

Game vs St.Kitts and Nevis about to start - interesting pre game commentary by Landon Donovan.

[Louis]

Originally Posted by wc1934

Game vs St.Kitts and Nevis about to start

Pretty one-sided to this point.

[BobC]

Last night was another unwatchable spectacle. Bleah.

[SteelCharlie]

Originally Posted by BobC

Last night was another unwatchable spectacle. Bleah.

Yeah, that was pretty sad. But then the whole Gold Cup has been wrestling matches and blatant fouls. Really unfortunate that the officials haven't stepped on that but it seems to have become the pervasive mode of play everywhere.

[echappist]

Originally Posted by BobC

Last night was another unwatchable spectacle. Bleah.

I’m glad to have skipped that.

It’s very unfortunate that the Gold Cup is once every two years (as opposed to four, like the Euros). Seriously dilutes how meaningful the endeavor is, in particular as we have a Nations League as well these days.

I know the football played is kinda dross but otoh, the second tier guys can show what they are made of.